Question about Kara boats

Sounds like this might fit your need..... http://www.gotohellbender.com/
I've seen these boats first hand and they are nice lightweight short boats as you describe. Owner of the company has posted on this site and I believe he has a couple of baots listed in the DBHF classified area. He splits time between MN and Florida, or at least he was.

I've give these a look over if they meet you needs - very nice craft.

Mark W


Mark-

Have you ever paddled them? How well do they paddle? I've seen them posted on FL sites that I visit and they do look like great little boats.

Dani

Sorry Dani, I have not paddled them. My guess is that they would paddle nicely. I say this as I have a longer version of this craft (same shape, same hull design, molded in keel just 15' long instead of 10') and mine paddles quite nice. I am not an expert in knowing if length makes a huge difference in "paddleability"

Mark W
 
Dani
Have you looked into a Hybrid boat.I believe it's made from a single sheet of plywood and suppose to be light too.I saw a picture of one someone made and there are two people sitting in it testing the stability, floating in a swimming pool. And those two guys were not light in weight. i think it was on Duck
Hunting Chat.com.I believe there is a link in the boat section on the site
Duck boat specs>marsh boats and skiffs> hybrids
 
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A couple of 10 foot canoes would be ideal and i"m keeping an eye out on that,

Dani

Dani

After hunting this fall with a Fiberdome Widgeon, I'd like to get an aluninum canoe and cut it off 4" above the waterline a weld on a deck. .

Chuck


A buddy of mine strip built a small solo canoe on this model. I think it was 12 feet long, partially decked over, very low gunwales. I'll see if I can dig up a picture. He tosses in 4-6 decoys and his gun, paddles a half mile or so, and uses it as a layout. He refers to it as the "Duckanoe". I think he considers it a prototype and may be working on a variation that is a little larger this winter.
 
Dani,

I started to build a Kara a several years ago and scraped the idea. I was using 1/4" luan for the decking and even before I got to the real work of fiberglassing I knew it was to heavy for me to wrestle around. That and I didn't like that fact it would only be roughly 10" deep. I'm with Dave on the Hellbender skiff. I was looking at one before I left Florida. Seemed to be a good offering for the money. Also check out Creekboats.com. A lot of people will put a dog in these small boats but personally I leave them home when hunting from a boat like these. It's far to easy for a figity dog to ruin a good day in the marsh but that's just me.

BTW...I saw your post on another site with the Gaddy. Very cool.
 
I'll throw my $.02 in,

I've built two karas and helped with two others, the lightest was 60-70 pounds I'm guessing. I could pick it up and put it in the back of my pickup fairly easy. Just go easy on the epoxy and use light wood .
100_1841-1.jpg

100_1113.jpg

 
There's a post on the workingdecoys.net forum of a guy who built the kara hummer frame (or very similar) and then filled the cavities with blue foam and then decked and fiber glassed over that. I think if the blue foam was supported enough you could do away with the thin deck and save some weight.

A buddy and I just bought a pair of sunfish to convert. The sunfish hull weighs around 120lbs which I believe is slightly heavier than the finished weight of a hummer. Just another thought to consider. It may not fit your length requirement though. We paid $80 a hull.
 
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Dani, thinking about the lightest KARA today....I don't think anyone has built one lighter than 60 or 70 pounds. I think it is possible to make one much lighter if the builder kept the context, but stepped away from the plans. As designed the KARA is way over built for most hunter needs. However, that makes it really easy and fast to build using simple hardware store materials. Someone on here used a CNC router to cut out his frames from plywood and that might by the lightest Hummer so far.

If I remeber the early days of the Robber the folks that built them mentioned that they were kind of unstable under them and did not, or could not, stand up and pole them as well as a Hummer. Here is Rob Taylors Robber build from 2007: http://duckboats.net.nmsrv.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=5820
You can see just how massive the frame is for such a tiny boat. Its way over built for what it is. Rob appears to paddle it sitting down and does well.

The KARA frame lends itself to being used as a construction frame for a strip hull, or even a cold molded thin plywood hull. The as designed 2x6 frame of the KARA is not needed if the builder relys on modern fiberglassing tech and simpler internal support frame construction.

Ever since my foam boat experiment I have been thinking about a cedar strip KARA Hummer. I think I will build a small flat bottomed garvey instead to go with the small mudmotor, but a cedar strip Hummer would be fun.

As mentioned you can also look into the Hybrid boats. They are easy to build, but are not easy to paddle - kind of like paddling a john boat. I built a similar boat of my own design some years ago. It works well. It is the largest boat I could build out of two pieces of plywood. It is very stable, and I am a very unstable person - never learned to skateboard as well as my friends. Its also real light at about 65lbs, but its width makes it awkward to handle.

If you like the way the Hellbender boats look you should check out the CLC Mill creek 13 style of decked recreation kayak. Similar to some rec plastic kayaks, but home made. Might not work well with dogs.
http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/boat-plans/mill-creek-13-stitch-and-glue-recreational-kayak-kit.html

DN Goodchild publishing sells lots of old boat plans and designs. There are several older frame style double ended boats similar to the Hellbender.
http://www.dngoodchild.com/divide_for_small_craft.htm click on the hunting boats at the top and it will jump down the page to duck stuff.
#5088 Broadbill is very similar looking to the Hellbender.
#5665 Featherweight is a really stubby and wide boat at only 8 feet - looks like an Aero Craft ducker doesn't it.
#5268 Pintail is another double ended boat. http://www.dngoodchild.com/5268.htm
#7849 is another great looking little boat.
#7878 the Guenther Garvey is one everyone needs to check out just for the photo of the guy driving like a boss. http://www.dngoodchild.com/7878.htm

All these old plans are from the time before quality fiberglass construction materials. They needed the frame to glue and nail the plywood to. From my view they can easily be built using stitch and glue and good glass inside and out. Using thin okoume plywood (4mm), then 4oz glass outside and 3oz indside you could easily have a 50 pound or less boat. The hardest part would be making sure you have the deck frame support well thought out. The dogs will be climbing up there and you will need to build that up with framing underneath it.
 
Wow Ray, there's a lot of info there. Love the http://www.dngoodchild.com/ website. Wish I had know about this when I built my Kara (too heavy, and too low for all but one place where I hunt, and I haven't gone there yet this season).

AA-
 
Dani, I would put in a good word for the Devlin Poleboat also. It has become my favorite, see my avitar. Pete may make you a good deal on a slightly dinged one :)). Be carefull not to get too small a boat, it is easy to overload one but no harm ever came from UNDERLOADING a boat. It sounds like you should move up to tropical Minn, mid 40's yesterday and almost that warm today. Happy new year!
 
I built 2 Kara's and one came in at 80 lbs. I'm hunting out of the heavier boat this season (the lighter boat is down in Louisiana; I'm hunting only in Arkansas this year.) Last trip I realized these boats will be 10 years old this fall! They don't look like it. I believe the Kara can be even lighter, maybe by using 1/2" Okoume for the ribs. If I ever build another one I'm going to design a stitch and glue version from the ground up and really push the envelope on weight. I have made a little cart that is basically a two wheeled wheelbarrow minus the barrow, but instead a couple of short bunks made of 1x6 PTL that I use to haul that thing down the levees and launch it into rice fields and flooded timber up in AR. Day before New Year's eve, I pulled that little cart a mile one way with the Kara on it. Good exercise. I haven't quite perfected that cart and am working on a truck roof transportation scheme ala Cabela's as well. Once I get that sorted out I will post some pics.

Ed.

My Kara website
 
One point I would like to make is I have hunted out of canoes, pirogues, and john boats. I have hunted with the Poke boat. These boats don't work like a Kara. The M-98 and the Hellbender, neither of these will do what a Kara will do. A Kara isn't just waterborne transportation to your hunting spot. It is heavy duty waterborne transportation with the ability to carry a lot of weight, and get it into the very shallow water puddle ducks are going to utilize, and then be a stable gunning platform that is easily hidden once you're there. These other boats won't do that.

Ed.
 
Ed is right.

Dani,
I had to get out an old CD to find these.

Mark built the KARA then the Robber but he had a shot of the two frames together.

markschuppkararobber.jpg


The Pole Boat is in this one.

MarkShupppoleboatwKaraRobber.jpg


and here with a fat boy and a KARA for height, and I think a Pod too.

MarkShupppoleboatwKara.jpg


This is the Pole Boat alone.

MarkShupppoleboat.jpg


I built my KARA to the plan and did not use light ply like Okume because of the cost. I didnt want to spend that much on epoxy fillets and wood if I didnt like the boat. It sits outside with a cover for three months and then is inside for the rest of the year hanging in the garage. No rot issue. 12 years old.
I wish I had a picture of the Robber finished because that is the next duck boat I will build. I love having the full size K for load carrying but for a floating blind to tow in it is bigger than it needs to be. But to shoot out of the water the Robber will be way more stable than a canoe or a sanford box. Cheap to build the first one. Then it can be a mold for the shape in glass and could be a good bit lighter.
Rich could help with how to do that and Mark might have a good picture of the finished Robber.
 
Thanks y'all for the input.

Bob thanks for the pictures that shows the different boats...it really is neat to see the differences in the different varieties...looked like a fun day too. So the consensus seems to be that the lightest weight Kara has been in the 70-80lb range....still a bit heavy for me I think but I'll keep thinking on it and researching ...but after much discussion here's why some of the boats mentioned aren't the most ideal for what I'm needing a boat for....

Pod doesn't track well over long distances and there are times when it would be a multiple mile paddle and I really don't care to fight the boat...

Mark W....yes..length makes a HUGE difference in tracking, as does width...short wide boats suck when it comes to tracking compared to long skinny ones.....clearly theres a compromise somewhere and I'm just trying to see if that compromise is available in a "lt. wt." Robber....not sure at this point...

the Bender boats look great....but at $650.00 are pretty steep for one season boats and my budget.......but are high on the list none the less and would be even higher if the builder would provide a close location that would allow a test paddle.....

Pole Boats aren't stable enough and are far too heavy...the biggest canoe negative is the difficulty in the dog exiting and getting it back in...stability isn't an issue when gunning since you can use a stabilization system for that...

Dani
 
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I would build a Robber and get an electric motor for the long run. It will take the dog and hide awesome for the hunt.
If the first one is too heavy, you use it to make a glass one using the original as a mold. Pop the bottom off first then the top with a 3\16 spacer all the way around the chine. Top fits over the bottom and you screw the mess together with 5200 or glass it together. A lot lighter I think but havent built one that way myself. Seen one popped off as 2 bottoms and glued together to get a lower profile for layout hunting but didnt get to weigh it or move it. Its lighter though. Could be stupid light if you want to spend the $ on carbon cloth, some hex core, and a bit of epoxy.

None of this is going to come in under 600 bucks though. That is why I would start with the Robber. Built to plan with reg. lumberyard stuff (Spruce, Cedar, A\C ply and PL2000 glue) (Dont go nuts making it stronger\more anything, it works as designed) you would be out short money and know if it fits your style. If it doesn't, sell it.

Way good in the stability department(Dog), Not so much in the Paddle 2 miles, But also low and stealthy for the hunt.

Or just bite it off and order 2 FatBoy DP's.
Good luck choosing.
 
One last thing I forgot. You should really PM Mark. He built these and had all 3 plus all of Iras to compare to. I bet he would have some opinions.

Bob
 
Dani, there is another small boat out there that was not mentioned.

http://www.banditmarine.com/index.html

An aluminum pirogue. With its tunnel hull it would paddle fine and have some stability for a dog to get in and out of. Not too expensive considering that its made out of beer can metal. At 52 pounds you should be able to man handle it in and out of the air boat.

The Contact Us page has a good photo of the bottom of the hull.

Their just up the coast in LA with a few dealers scattered around.
 
Thanks Bob...several of the places I hunt are no motor zones...including electric motors which is why whatever I get needs to paddle well

Ray, I'll take a look at the link...thanks.....


Dani
 
I wonder how stable that boat is. A tunnel hull like that is the opposite to what you would do to achieve stability; would make the COG higher I would think. The usual reason to do that is on a planing hull to get the prop up higher out of the mud. Not what's going on there obviously.

Ed.
 
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