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Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V

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Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V
There is a perception down here that semi-v boats are much more unstable than mod-v jons. Had a dealer today tell me that he would never buy a 14'-68" semi-v that his brand carried: "too damn unstable" was how he started out. I was kinda shocked by his comments.

So, here is the question for your guys with experience with both (or just semi-vs):

Comparing boats of relatively the same hull length & bottom width, is the mod-v really that much more stable than the semi-v?

Any problems standing to shoot & walking around in a 14-15' semi-v?

Should I be re-thinking my approach and go with a deeper, wider and longer mod-v, which are a dime a dzn in the south,
or;
Should I stick with trying to find the deep & wide semi-v hulls I have been interested in ?

Any and all advice is welcome!

FYI: I've been looking mainly at getting a 14-15' Lund, Grumman, Sylvan or Smokercraft deep semi-v. Looking to get something that is still shallow draft but has better ride and performance in choppy water.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
Well yes and no, I guess it depends on what they mean by stable. I've shot out of a small v hull and it was fine. Here we could almost always pull it up in cattails so maybe I'm not the best to answer this.
V hulls will handle rougher water so if you need one it doesn't matter. A modified v is nice if you can get by with it but they are closer to a jon boat in my opinion then a true v.

I think a lot of it is that most guys think a duck boat should be flat bottomed. If you are hunting small water and shallow marshes they are right. But I think v hulls have a place and if you deal with a lot of waves or even chop they are much better. To be honest if you shift weight much in any 14' or 15' boat it is going to move. If you stabilize it with poles or can pull up in grass then it doesn't matter much what the bottom shape is.

Tim
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Ah Nuts!"

http://snipehunterfishart.blogspot.com/
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
What are you calling a semi-v?

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***Phil (Chesapeake Boy) Nowack***

http://www.mapleridgetaxidermy.com
http://www.philnowackphotography.com

Nothing like the north wind pushing snow at your back, a bird in your hand, and chessie with ice on his coat at your side.

Birds brought to you courtesy of Nikon, Benelli, and Kodi
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
Not an expert on this by any stretch of the imagination, but I have a 14' sears that I would guess to be about a 40-42" width, never actually measured it. A little tipsy standing and walking, but would be much better if it had a flat floor. My buddy had a 16' at about 68" and you could walk anywhere you wanted and barely move the boat. I would think a 14" at 68" would be plenty stable to walk around or shoot in. Guess it would depend on the design though.
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to

In Reply To
What are you calling a semi-v?

I'm not sure either but from the context I'm guessing it's something like my boat here. With the V in the bow and flat in the stern.


When swimming I can pull myself up on the gunnel on this 16' Smokercraft and it doesn't move too much. Sure it rolls more than a wide flat bottom, but I'd rather have this boat on open water. For example, we were heading out one morning on Cayuga Lake and the wind was bad, I ended up turning around and heading back to the launch. Shortly after we got to the launch, a large 20-some foot jon with a V-bow (Mod-V?) came back too. He had launched shortly before we did and decided to turn around as well. His boat was full of water when he got back to the dock, where as mine didn't have much water in the bilge.

I also had my boat on Lake Ontario last year in some swells that were as tall as me. I'd rather not take the boat out in swells like that, but it did handle them well.

As far as draft in shallow water goes, the outboard hits bottom long before the hull.

Last edited by:

John Fraser: Feb 9, 2011, 7:00 PM
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
Carl,

A flat bottom boat generally has a higher initial stability then a V-hull. Standing up, walking around, the flat bottom will feel more stable, rock less. I've noticed a big difference between my old Wolverine 14 ft v-hull and my newer Starcraft 14'-6" V. The Starcraft has a much higher rated capacity and cuts through wave better but the old tub had a wider transom at the waterline than the Starcraft although roughly 8" narrower at the rail. Now compare righting moment and the V-hull is generally better than the Jon or Mod-Jon. Add in the higher sharp bow, greater free-board and sleeker X-section to take seas better and your better off when it kicks up. But initial stability is where Jons shine, that's exactly why they are so popular. One of the benefits of having the deck on my V-Hull is that it forces the shooter to stay close to the center-line minimizing the boat's reactive movement.

Best,
Scott
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
Well Carl... that 16 of mine is a semi-V

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***Phil (Chesapeake Boy) Nowack***

http://www.mapleridgetaxidermy.com
http://www.philnowackphotography.com

Nothing like the north wind pushing snow at your back, a bird in your hand, and chessie with ice on his coat at your side.

Birds brought to you courtesy of Nikon, Benelli, and Kodi
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
For a boat under 16 I'd say the semi v is less stable than the mod v. That said, a big beamy semi v over 16ft like the bigger Lunds etc are pretty darn stable. I mean, I'd be happy to jump up and down the gunnel of my 16'8" Lund. If you're talking about hunting mostly marshes and river then the jon is your best bet in my opinion. If you're going to run across big open bays or larger lakes or large rivers with rollers or chop then the semi v is best. If you have to drive the boat into phrags or cattails then the semi v is handy to punch in but many of the mod v with a nice pointy bow does pretty good too.


http://www.anglinoutdoors.com

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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
I've had two different 15' v hulls and both were very stable and performed very well in choppy open water. I now run a 1756 G3 semi and it is a great all around boat. It is very stable to hunt out of, heavy enough to break ice if I need to and drafts very little in the shaloow marsh. I've run it for about 5 years and the only complaint is that it can get a little spray when the water is choppy.
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Re: Some clarifications: In reply to
Hulls designs (according to most definitions I have found online):
Basic Jon: Flat from bow to stern, no V at all.
Mod-v Jon: Basically a jon boat with a partial v bow. Think of a Tracker Grizzley or Lowe Roughneck: http://www.loweboats.com/...ghneck-jon/rv160.php
Semi-V: V bow, flat bottomed at the stearn. Think of a Lund SSV or WC, or sylvan alaskan: http://www.sylvanmarine.com/...s&Series=Alaskan .
Full V: V bow and the V extends all the way to the stern. Like an offshore boat.

The boats I have been looking at all are 14-16', with a beam of 68-70". Bottom widths are listed at ~48", transom width ~59-60". I prefer a walk-thru design.

Basic problem I have is that I hunt & fish both sheltered and big open water but can only have one boat.
I may cross big open water that can range from flat calm to 2'-3' chop but then may hunt a marsh in 6-8" of water and slop, or in 2' of water on a grass flat 2 miles out in the bay.
Because of these conditions, and because my current boat is really too small to hunt & fish more then one person regularly under these condition, I have been looking at a 14.5-15', maybe 16' semi-v. But a similar size higher sided, more seaworthy mod-v might work.
Either one will be better than my current 1440 mod-v, its just too small for me & the boy, plus my girl in a couple of years too.
So, you see my dilemna and why I have been really struggling with this decision for a while now.

Thanks for all your advice and for putting up with me!


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
I agree with Scott Faris. "Initial" stability is the issue, but I think the chine is at least as big a deal as the construction of the bow. And length matters because the V on a 14 footer is going to minimize the amount the length of the boat that has full beam (the stability issue).

A hard chined boat, like a plywood skiff or a jon boat, is going to offer higher level of initial stability.

Of course initial stability can reinforce false confidence in something like a narrow, 36 or even 42", 12-14' jon boat.

Re: standing up to shoot.

In any sort of blind situation, floating or land, I shoot from sitting down. Standing up takes time & gives the birds a little more time to move away. Also, I've had a new hunting companion stand up & shoot over my head. It was the last time I hunted with that guy.
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
Carl: not many boats inthe size range you are talking about are going to be either comfortable or safe in a 2-3 foot chop! learn and accept your boats linitations and use it with caution on the windy rough days.I used to fish commercially and lost a lot of friends because they underestimated sea conditions and overestimated their boats sea keeping abilities Had a very close call myself many years ago when my determination to make it home to my port one stormy winter afternoon almost cost me my boat and the lives of me and my crewman. My boat got me home it was overloaded with ice and leaked like a seive till I had it hauled out and repaired. I could have run south with the sea and had a much easier trip to another dock.That meant I would have had to get someone to drive to pick us up or spend the night huddled around a kerosene heater.Probably would have been better than three other guys that day, they never made it home.Be safe and dont be a hero! Rich
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
I appreciate your concern.

However, going out in a 2-3' chop is never in my plans. But we all know how notoriously inaccurate wind forecasts are, especially on the coast. So, getting caught having to come back in something rougher than planned happens. 3' would be really on the very high side. I've come back in some 2'ers in my 1440 and its not fun. Thats why I want something a little wider, longer and with higher sides.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
I have a friend with an older Roughneck 1652(?) with the tall (deep?) tunnel hull. He uses it for running rivers that are not too shallow since he uses a prop rather than a jet.

The primary use of the boat is fall rainbow fishing on the Kenai from the outlet of Skilak lake. He has to cross about 1.5 miles of the far down wind part of the lake to get to the inlet to the river and then motor drifts for miles down the river hitting the various holes for the giant fall rainbows that are fat on dead salmon.

Coming back up river is fine, but usually the wind is up to 20 knots and the lake is nothing but 2 to 3 foot wind driven white caps. The Rough neck has no problems going into the waves straight on or quartering. He usually has one person sitting on the bow seat while he is standing at the center console. He feathers the throttle a lot to control his speed up the waves, and you will take a bit of a pounding up there in the bow seat, but the boat works well in those conditions. Which is nearly every day in the fall on that lake. He does have to watch out for how much of the bow and hull are exposed over the top of the wave if the wind is really whipping so that the boat does not turn into a kite and flip.

As for initial stability the boat is fantasic. I watched the owner walk the gunnels from the bow to the stern one day while salmon fishing with him. His life time of hockey gives him impecable balance. His 230 pounds up on the gunnel did not move the boat much. It might have dipped 2 inches under his weight. I was sitting down on the front bench I noticed that the boat did not feel like it wanted to squirt out from under us.

These older roughnecks show up used every couple of years up here and I now have a boat fund saved up to buy the next one that is not beat to death due to its hard life on Alaskan rivers.



"Where all men think alike, no one thinks very much......It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf." -- Walter Lippmann
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Re: Some clarifications: In reply to
Carl,

How flat is flat in the stern? This is my Starcraft SF 14 S.



Underway w/ salty spray, Bob B. on board, taken by Andrew.



Personally I think your on the right track to go with a semi-V or V by my terminology.

The Wolverine fit the flat stern category and did have a significantly higher initial stability.



Good luck & enjoy looking for your new boat,
Scott
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Re: Some clarifications: In reply to
Based on my read, your SF 14 S is technically a V, but not a Deep-V.
And the Wolverine is a Semi-V, and is what I have in mind.

Looking for a new boat is fun and frustrating at the same time, sort of like duck hunting itself. :)


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
The benefits a stable shooting platform that come wth a a Mod V will never outwiegh the seaworthyness of a semi-v. The stablity in a small increase where the seaworthyness is a much bigger increase. From your posts I can's think of a better boat than a 16' starcraft SS line, first they are cheap, Tons of them around, well made, high sides, seaworthy(much more than even a 14') and they do draft quite shallow water, your skeg will hit before the boat does.
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Re: Boat Stability: Mod-V Jon vs. Semi-V In reply to
Thanks Bill, will look at the Starcraft website.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "