1989 18' Outlaw duck boat

R

Reeder Rice

New member
I have recently purchased an 18' Outlaw duck boat. After reading all the online scuttlebutt regarding this boat I plan to address some potential issues.
1. Concerns over fuel contamination. I have discontinued 26 gal under deck tank. 25+ year old alum. and ethanol gas bother me. I am using two 6 gal. "cans" and have used non-ethanol in all my outboards. I've added a 6 hp. 4-stroke for backup in case of original 60hp. having issues.
2. Foam flotation. Two aft inspection covers indicate entire hull foam filled until last few inches from transom. ( someone had complained about foam placement)
3.Rough water. Any boat with a hard cover above the gunnels has potential to capsize once water has shipped with no where to escape. ( as opposed to conventional " swamping " to the waterline).
4. Seat placement. 5 seats in line on Port side look ominous. Actually all seats " deploy " to centerline of craft both while hunting and underway. almost impossible to sit in retracted position due to curvature of shell ( blind ).
This is a 1989 flat bottom with a wide beam. I am hoping it is an asset on the shallow estuaries in the Pacific NW. While certainly formidable, I don't think our weather compares with the Great Lakes at least in regard to freezing temps. and open water. I would like any and all input you have. Thanks Reed
 
A guy I know hunted out of an Outlaw on the Missouri at the SD/Neb border. He was very careful in freezing rough open water but it did well getting into the skinny backwater. Know the crafts limitations and you will do fine.
 
There were a number of things that contributed to the deaths: Saginaw Bay is quite shallow with a long fetch; waves build quickly to the point of waveform instability when they crest as "breakers". He had little experience with this hull and boats in general. I run into a gentlemen at the ramps from the Crystal Falls area that owns the same hull, he often hunts the Bays de Noc. His words: "Never get broadside in open water in a big blow, drop behind a point or an island before making your turn."

When running into a head sea with this hull/blind configuration, things get "iffy" when you attempt to take waves on an angle... As you have already surmised, weight distribution is key in this boat when underway. Installing a 1000-1500gph bilge pump would be a wise move, based on you concerns regarding shipped water intrusion and its impacts on boat handling.

IF you are stating that you have gasoline in the internal tank of this boat, by all means pump it out or have it pumped. There are a couple of tank treatments that are available commercially. I would add one of them per instructions to clean the internals of any deposits that have formed, pump the tank, and then replace the fuel supply line with one that is inert to the effects of ethanol treated gasoline, which acts as a solvent on some plastics, as well as swelling some others that absorb the water component drawn into solution via moist incoming air at the breather-just in case you have no other option than running on ethanol containing fuel. Carrying your fuel below decks in the internal tank keeps the center of gravity lower.

The boat builder made some outrageous claims regarding the safety of these boats, which came back to bite him-a little more polished version of a current era duck boat builder.
 
I guess I don't know where the vent is on these, but if there is a 25 gallon set low, I would rather change the vent location and use the factory aluminum tank than piss around with carrying 2- 6 gallon tanks... or whatever it was that you were suggesting. (I don't remember)

So, I remember seeing one of these on Pool 9 back in the day. Looked pretty cool for a fairly high sided blind. I agree with a good bilge pump, but am a little surprised that these could take on that much water. Even if you speared a wave, it looks from the pictures as if the bulk of it would be shed off, not entering the boat. Perhaps the pictures don't show everything.
 
Thanks for the feedback... I don't know for sure if the factory tank is a-ok, I found fuel in bilge and previous owner suggested spillage over time from auxillary above deck tank when I asked about it. Between vent location low on outside of hull and Saginaw story I panicked and pumped 25gal. factory tank dry and discontinued in favor of " jerry " cans. I've cleaned bilge with dish soap and am now tempted to re-plumb factory tank and monitor bilge for more idea on integrity of tank.( I like the logic of lower center of gravity ) I have as much fun with boats in my driveway as I do on the water but am definitely looking forward to getting this project on the water! Thanks again!
 
Before you pump fuel into the tank again, can you pull it & leak check it?
 
If I recall, the issue with the fuel was the fill area. It allowed for water to enter the tank , contaminating it, and then causing the motor to stop. That was the theory that lead to the deaths. But it was long ago, and age is forgging my brain.
 
Thought about that, I guess you would need to attach a pressure gauge to the vent line after pressurizing the tank???
 
Fuel tank is surrounded by blown in foam and underneath sealed fiberglass deck, would have to cut. The pressure test is probably the way to go. Or be lazy and carry on with the intention of checking bilge for any trace of fuel leakage dribbling aft. Without relocating vent I plan to extend higher up on hull using tubing ( until it gets wiped out the first time I come alongside the dock )
 
jak walters said:
If I recall, the issue with the fuel was the fill area. It allowed for water to enter the tank , contaminating it, and then causing the motor to stop. That was the theory that lead to the deaths. But it was long ago, and age is forgging my brain.
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Here are earlier threads on the Outlaw 18
http://www.duckboats.net/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=239434
http://duckboats.net/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=13898;search_string=outlaw;#13898

Yes you should be very wary of the fuel system.

Here are links to stories about accident soon after it occurred:
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/1995/nov/21/boat-accident-embroils-local-firm-in-controversy/
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19951121&slug=2153786

The estates of the victims sued Outlaw Marine and Atwood Corporation, the maker of the Ventilated Fuel Filler. Outlaw settled before trial. Here is a link to the appeal court decision which upheld dismissal of claims against Atwood but does reveal issues with the VFF that Outlaw did not consider in its boat design.
http://www.michbar.org/file/opinions/appeals/2001/031601/9708.pdf

Some key excerpts:

"These consolidated wrongful death products liability actions arose from the tragic deaths by hypothermia and drowning of James Ayre, Howard Swift, Rodney Burnside, and Burnside’s fourteen-year-old son, Bradley, on November 11, 1995, after their “Outlaw 18” duck hunting boat capsized on Saginaw Bay.
On the morning trial began in September 1998, former defendant Outlaw Marine, Inc., the builder and seller of the Outlaw 18, settled with the estates. The case was tried against defendant Attwood, the manufacturer of a fuel-system component Outlaw had purchased through a distributor and installed in Ayre’s Outlaw 18. Plaintiffs contended that this component, a vented fuel fill (VFF), was defective, and that Attwood was negligent in failing to warn of the component’s dangerous characteristics. After a thirty-day trial, the jury returned a verdict of no cause of action, finding no negligence and no breach of implied warranty. The trial court denied plaintiffs’ motion for new trial........

....The trial court instructed the jury regarding failure to warn as follows:
Now, relative to the product again, the defendant had a duty to use reasonable care at the time it designed the vented deck fill, so as to eliminate unreasonable risks of harm or injury which were reasonably foreseeable.
-3
The defendant also had a duty to use reasonable care to communicate information that is essential to the safe use of the product. Now, this duty to warn and instruct extends to intended uses of a product and associated with the product – I should say, with the foreseeable misuse of a product.
However, a component supplier does not have a duty to warn or instruct a company that knew or should have known of the product’s characteristics."

Also on page 15 there is a mention that there was a recall for another problem with the VFF, which may be an explanation for the fuel inside your boat:
"...THE COURT: What was the basis for the recall again?
MR. HAHN: . . . . it’s my understanding that when a fuel hose from a pump was inserted in and downward pressure was applied, the fill was breaking in this area (indicating), which would be the back area of the fuel pipe, rather than the vent...."
 
With all due respect to the folks who offer criticisms regarding these boats going "turtle" when swamped because of floatation array, you seem to leave out the impact(s) of a powerhead on the floatational stability of a swamped hull. I have yet to see a boat that did not flip over in rough conditions when swamped.

Regarding the earlier criticism that lumped the Outlaw series duck boats with other "high side"duckboat hulls manufactured by Duckwater, TDB, Bankes, etc. You are extrapolating from a boat with a high profile fiberglass blind to a variety of hulls with pop-up blinds on them that do not add comparable weight, inflexible surface area, or alter the center of gravity. Bankes builds a hull with well over half its foam floatation below the waterline; Yet a Devlin design is considered safer based on three point floatational stability? You should inform Regulator, Boston Whaler, Everglades, Contender, Triton, and Yellowtail of this glaring design flaw.
 
RLLigman said:
With all due respect to the folks who offer criticisms regarding these boats going "turtle" when swamped because of floatation array, you seem to leave out the impact(s) of a powerhead on the floatational stability of a swamped hull. I have yet to see a boat that did not flip over in rough conditions when swamped.

Regarding the earlier criticism that lumped the Outlaw series duck boats with other "high side"duckboat hulls manufactured by Duckwater, TDB, Bankes, etc. You are extrapolating from a boat with a high profile fiberglass blind to a variety of hulls with pop-up blinds on them that do not add comparable weight, inflexible surface area, or alter the center of gravity. Bankes builds a hull with well over half its foam floatation below the waterline; Yet a Devlin design is considered safer based on three point floatational stability? You should inform Regulator, Boston Whaler, Everglades, Contender, Triton, and Yellowtail of this glaring design flaw.
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I will say, having sat on top of an upside down boat on Lake Huron for an extended period while waiting for a Coast Guard rescue, that even the safest of boats, with or without a motor, can find itself upside down when unexpected severe weather arrives. Fortunately I lived to tell the tale. There is nothing that can replace respect for the elements and for some folks important lessons in life have to be learned the hard way. I can be simple at times. I was a teenager when it happened and I have thought about that day every time I had to make an important boating decision in the 40 years since. It wasn't the boat manufacturers fault I got wet that September day. I made a bad decision when I tried to outrun sudden severe weather and it almost cost three of us our lives. Sadly things didn't work out as well for the folks across the lake in Michigan.

You can say it was boat design, or the fuel tank install, but they wouldn't have died if they had stayed put and waited it out. A true tragedy!
 
[size 4]Time has the tendency to dull people's memories of the whole "Outlaw" operation. Back while I was looking into buying a duckboat, Outlaw was one of the companies I carefully considered. Fortunately, the back and forth I experienced with Jim Cripe was enough to steer me clear of the whole operation. Seems his "business model" was to discredit everyone else and tout his "engineering" background in response to any legitimate question. Here is my reply from one of the threads referenced in an earlier post :

[size 2]"Unfortunately, most anyone who can remember the days of Outlaw boats & outlaw silhouettes came away with the same impression of Jim Cripe that Lou has all those horror stories about. I remember corresponding with him prior to settling on a TDB. At the time he had lots of literature and claims, but no boats (or at best a few prototypes) built. Didn't seem to have a supply / shipping plan in place either...... but, man, he sure could rip on every other established dealer out there and tell you why their product was inferior. Only sales brochure I ever saw that focused on the weaknesses of everyone else's products. Matter of fact that's why I decided to never purchase anything from Outlaw.
Didn't take long for Outlaw Boats to go Belly up (pun intended). "
 
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Having just re-read the entire thread, I find no comments regarding Mr. Cripe's business model or promotion of his products that are positive.

One other point that escapes me is why you opt to post this paragraph that attempts to use an event that cost several people their lives, as a point of levity.
 
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