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I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float

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I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float
Hello All,

After some grilled hamburger and corn on this Memorial Day I thought I should right this post.

After returning from Occoquan Bay with my son toward a boat ramp on Occoquan River today, I absently mindedly steered my boat left of the orange channel marker near the boat ramp and ran my 1974 Johnson Weedless 4hp outboard aground.

(I am afraid that I was preoccupied with looking out for stumps and tidal[?]debris -we did hit something- and I failed to recall just how shallow the river can be some distance from the river bank. I never grounded the scull float however!)

I did not break the prop and the engine was still running. However, gurgling and froth appeared in the water at the dampeners between the exhaust housing and the swivel brackets. I turned off the engine and restarted it. I ran the engine at almost full throttle and hobbled onto the boat ramp at a snails pace as a police boat stood by watching mariners leave and exit the boat ramp.

(Ironically I just had replaced the starter spring two boat trips ago.)

I would like to keep this old motor. I have the 1974 Parts Catalog and Service Manual; however, I do not know rightly what I did to my motor. My guess is that some members of this forum have done exactly what I did with exactly the same result.

Did I ruin my trusty old Johnson for good or is this something I can repair? If there is a fix, where did any of you start or what did any of you have to replace? (I know with mechanical repairs that just replacing parts at random (such as the dampeners) may not solve the problem.)


Any input would be most welcome.

Thanks much in advance on this Memorial Day.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
I should have written "I steered my boat 'right' of the orange channel marker." I was going up stream.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Tom Scholberg would be able to give you step by step instructions to fix that motor. Get a hold of him. He frequents the site.

Mak
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Did you just shear the cotter pin on the prop?
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
no. I do not think so. let me go down and take a brief look. thanks.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Hello Kris,

No I did not sheer the pin. I can spin the prop with my little finger with ease though. I do not know if that is good or bad.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Hi Mark,

I hope he sees this post. Any direction given would be most welcome.

Thanks
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Yup, I am here. Don't do anything foolish. Take the prop off and see if you can turn the shaft, you shouldn't. If I remember right that one doesn't have a neutral, does it? Parts for the weedless lower unit can be VERY expensive if they are even available. Post what you find, I do love those weedless OMCs. There is one on my avatar picture
"There is nothing- absolutly nothing half as much worth doing as messing about in boats or with boats. In or out of 'em, doesn't matter." Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Graham

Shiny side up,
Wicker T, Booker T & Charlie Brown
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Hello Tom,

Thanks for the reply. I will let you know what I find out after doing what you suggested.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Tom,

You are right that the motor does not have a neutral. I pulled the cotter pin and took off the prop. The shaft spins. What does this fact tell you?

Thanks
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Mr. Werner, out of curiosity where are you located? I may have a doner motor here in CT and it sounds like you'll be needing one. Out put shaft turns, without turning over the motor, means that you have a broken shaft, stripped gearing or a failed bearing that's letting the gears unmesh. I acquired my 4 hp non-folding model in the late 90s and used it on my Merry Meeting for a short while, the carb leaked and it didn't run the best so I replaced it with a new 3.5 Nissan w/ neutral and the Johnson has mostly hung around since. I did offer it to BillyE for his Zach Taylor but he decided to go with another motor after running a compression test on it. So here it is 2018 still missing a lower cowling, and needing a carb rebuild and possibly a piston ring job. Sounds like a doner engine to me.

So where are you located?
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Scott Farris wrote:
Mr. Werner, out of curiosity where are you located? I may have a doner motor here in CT and it sounds like you'll be needing one. Out put shaft turns, without turning over the motor, means that you have a broken shaft, stripped gearing or a failed bearing that's letting the gears unmesh. I acquired my 4 hp non-folding model in the late 90s and used it on my Merry Meeting for a short while, the carb leaked and it didn't run the best so I replaced it with a new 3.5 Nissan w/ neutral and the Johnson has mostly hung around since. I did offer it to BillyE for his Zach Taylor but he decided to go with another motor after running a compression test on it. So here it is 2018 still missing a lower cowling, and needing a carb rebuild and possibly a piston ring job. Sounds like a doner engine to me.

So where are you located?


Now THERE is a generous offer. The people on this site are the best . . . .

"At first blush I am tempted to conclude that a satisfactory hobby must be in large degree useless, inefficient, laborious, or irrelevant."
Aldo Leopold
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
[/quote]

Now THERE is a generous offer. The people on this site are the best . . . .[/quote]
I was thinking the same thing when I read that post!

---------------------------------------------------------------------
***Phil (Chesapeake Boy) Nowack***

http://www.mapleridgetaxidermy.com
http://www.philnowackphotography.com

Nothing like the north wind pushing snow at your back, a bird in your hand, and chessie with ice on his coat at your side.

Birds brought to you courtesy of Nikon, Benelli, and Kodi
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
The possible doner - look right?

Scott



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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Scott is right and the doner looks like a match. The people on this site are a generous bunch (right Phil) and like I said you might have trouble even finding parts for that little jewel.OMC is very good with the interchange issue so you might be able to just change over te whole lower unit.
"There is nothing- absolutly nothing half as much worth doing as messing about in boats or with boats. In or out of 'em, doesn't matter." Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Graham

Shiny side up,
Wicker T, Booker T & Charlie Brown
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Curious.......how does one hit something and break the drive shaft, or strip on of the drive gears and not break the shear pin?

Matt
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
I think the lower unit on Scott's motor can be used on Mr. Werner's motor, but it won't be quite a direct swap. Scott's motor is a later generation. I think they started making that one in 1979. I tried to put an older '70's long shaft lower onto an early '80's 4hp Evinrude. It seemed do-able until I noticed the spline on the end of the drive shaft. The older motor had a 6 or 8-flute spline. The newer motor had a 4-flute spline. This is the spline that goes into the end of the crankshaft. I don't really know exactly when they made that change, but on my motors, the splines were definitely not interchangeable. Maybe you could trade the driveshafts before you install the new lower unit. I didn't remove the drive shaft from either of my lower units, so I don't know if they made any changes at that end of the drive shaft. Good luck with your repair; those are wonderful little motors, and well worth repairing. Incidentally, you can buy almost any parts you need for that motor on eBay. Pay attention though. Prices are all over the map.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Hi Scott,

Thank you for the kind offer. The gear case and exhaust housing look like an exact match. I did buy my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float in Massachusetts just 10 or 20 miles below the Connecticut boarder. I am located in Virginia however. If I could make my way up there I would be very happy to accept your gracious offer.

I can buy many parts online but some suppliers do not have everything so I do appreciate your generosity. The guys are right that your generosity speaks well of duckboats.net and you.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Gordon, Thanks for the specifics. With some more info you could search and compare part numbers. That would narrow it down.
"There is nothing- absolutly nothing half as much worth doing as messing about in boats or with boats. In or out of 'em, doesn't matter." Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Graham

Shiny side up,
Wicker T, Booker T & Charlie Brown
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Hi Matt,

That is a good question. I must have been doing about 3 to 4 mph when the gear case and exhaust cover assembly ran aground on the river bed. I do not think the hull ever bottomed out on the river bed. The prop was still turning and we were able to limp less than 50 yards to the boat ramp. I do not think the prop may have ever actually hit anything. The plastic prop doesn't appear damage at all! I almost wonder if I didn't crack the exhaust housing only because of all the air bubbles spewing from the bottom of the swivel brackets. I may have stripped the gears on the propeller shaft assembly or the driveshaft pinion. I do not rightly know. Or perhaps, and possibly just as likely, there was internal damage/fissures/ cracks from other bangs and bumps in that old motors past unseen from outside and one good smack was all it took. But I am guessing at this point. But that is a good question.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Hello Gordon,

Thanks for your input and observation about the drive shaft spline and thank you for your encouragement.

My wife thinks I may overcomplicate life by repairing old things. But this is how I got our 1998 Honda Civic to run 287,000 miles until last week. (As I said to my son driving home from the boat ramp, "You may find that things seem to go wrong or break all at once during life.") My brother, who is an auto mechanic, said that I didn't break anything in the car. (The car was getting spark and I sprayed starter fluid down the throttle body. I feared the camshaft chain finally broke or there was some other mechanical failure.) My brother said, "you just wore the engine out." I don't wonder if something similar maybe said for that trusty old Johnson.

I told my wife I want to save that old engine. I haven't told her yet that I am thinking about trying to save our old car.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Tom,

That is a good point. Comparing part numbers on different year engines would be very helpful. I bought some fuel lines to repair an old craftsman leaf blower and discovered that my craftsman hedge trimmer had the same part numbers for its fuel lines -which also need replacing.

I found Boats.Net and Marineengine.com to be excellent sources for parts for my motor and both sights provide drawings with part numbers.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Gordon,

I found parts available on Marineengine.com and boats.net. I have bought from one of the two in the past. Thanks for directing me to ebay.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
"Out put shaft turns, without turning over the motor, means that you have a broken shaft, stripped gearing or a failed bearing that's letting the gears unmesh."

Scott,

Thanks for pointing me toward the possible problems. Sometimes I have to read through things more than once to recognize an answer to my question. Unfortunately the bearing housing assembly is unavailable at the two engine websites I found.

thanks again for offering to donate your engine.
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Re: I broke the engine on my Merry Meeting Bay Scull Float In reply to
Mr. Werner,
You really need to disassemble a couple of things to figure out what exactly is wrong with your motor. If I may make a suggestion or two:

1) Remove the swivel. I think that only requires the removal of four screws. The exhaust housing is one continuous tube in the area where it passes through the swivel. You said there were bubbles sputtering out of the swivel. That sort of implies that the exhaust housing is broken within the swivel. Could the exhaust housing have broken, letting the lower leg bend enough to break the drive shaft or pull it out from the crankshaft? Never heard of that, but it sounds plausible.

2) Remove the gearbox. Again; four screws. This will let you see the crankshaft and probably see what the problem is. Broken shaft? Stripped spline? Bad gearset? You should be able to figure it out just by taking the gearcase off, and at worst, opening it.

Let us know what you find; this one has me really curious.
Gordon