Arkansas Duck Hunting In Decline?

Eric Patterson

Moderator
Staff member
I watched the below video before I went into knee surgery today and can't help but think the video merely reported hunter concerns and perceptions, but never did any real investigation or analysis. Has anyone looked up the Fed reported hunter harvest in Arkansas? Do the hunter opinions match the harvest reports? Are harvest trends down? I myself haven't taken the time to look it up yet, so my following comments may not apply, but I do want to add an observation, that being duck hunter's typically view the present as "off" and "poor" and "not like it used to be", while the past was "better" or "awesome" or "Those were the glory days!", even when the data doesn't really support it. I think this is far more prevalent than hunters admit or even recognize. It kind of cracks me up when I hear guys say the 90's were "freaking incredible" but it "sucks today", myself having heard guys in the 90s saying "This sucks!" and "You should have seen it in the 70s." Has the duck hunting quality truly been declining nonstop over the decades? I don't think so. I do think time makes memories grow fond and stretches of poor hunting are lost in the old memory banks while great hunts survive, leading hunters to think the past was vastly superior to the present. In my own observations I have definitely seen some changes, such as gadwall numbers plummeting while redheads and cans increased dramatically on our local lake. Let's face it, ducks are HIGHLY ADAPTABLE creatures and prone to change habits based on many factors. I don't doubt some parts of the country see more ducks and some less that 20 years ago, but how much of the cries for "We are losing our ducks!" are really just memories cast in a better light than the present?

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/arkansas-duck-hunting-faces-decline-and-climate-change-1469065795609

Hmmm, I hope this is intelligible because the pain meds have me a bit lightheaded right now...

Eric
 
I think your spot on and your comment that ducks are highly adaptable. Studies show that here in the pacific flyway that historically known waterfowl habit is no longer a staging point. The agricultural has changed around us and the birds have adapted for better feed.

What amazes me the distance they can achieve in a short time. This was part of the study and they claimed the birds have better feed and which makes them stronger to cover these distances in a short time.

I hope your knee heals quickly!
 
I think some of it might be an indication of local changes in wintering numbers due to migration pattern changes (warmer winters, birds simply going somewhere else, etc..). But also an equal part nostalgia.

I can tell you that here in Mobile we have definitely seen a change in migration patterns vs. the late 90's. We used to winter a lot more lesser scaup and gadwalls than we do now. From 1997-2003, limits of either were almost easy. And we also don't see ringnecks like we did back then. All three species simply aren't coming to our area of the coast like they used to. The upside is that we have more redheads than we ever did.

I think we have a number of factors working against us in our specific part of the Gulf Coast:
  • The 2004-2005 Hurricane Seasons followed by 2 years of drought wiped out our grass beds and there was hardly any waterfowl food for 5-6 years. Ducks came but left when there was nothing to eat.
  • Hunting pressure increased, the "Duck Commander Effect". We had fewer birds on smaller patches of habitat getting pounded by a pile of newbies in they UnderArmor clothes driving shiny brand new $15K boats screaming on $100 mallard calls over their 2 dzn new brand name decoys with their $4000 lab, sky blasting with their brand new 3.5" $1500 semis. If it wasn't so tragic it would have been funny. Where they got the money from is one big question I always had. And what they sold their boats for after finding out it ain't so easy is the other.
  • The 2 above seemed combine to change migration patterns. Yearling birds follow mom & dad south. If mom & dad change where they go, its reinforced in the next generation as they go where mom & dad went last year. Self-reinforcing process.
  • Warmer winters. This is the clincher. Most ducks will only go as far south as they need to. And lately they just simply haven't had to come south. If, as the data indicates, this warming trend continues, the southern states will winter fewer and fewer ducks.
Overall, I think we need a better midwinter survey program to start building a better data set on where the birds are wintering and how the numbers match up with the breeding grounds survey.
 
Hope you had a successful surgery and will have a swift recovery!

There are several factors....

I?ve heard my state biologist say ?duck hunters are the only demographic whose satisfaction level decreases the longer they?ve been doing it? That has been demonstrated in survey after survey, much to your point of recalling the past as having been better

Also, the composition of the fall flight, and thus the hunters? bag, has changed. If you believe the BPOP survey Mallard numbers have been high for the past 20 years but teal, gads, and shovelers are absolutely through the roof. A lot of folks don?t believe the mallard numbers are legit and also don?t care that much about other dabblers- I think Arkansas timber hunters would fall in that group.

There?s also a lot of truth to the mallards being spread ou in the winter-all the way up the Missouri River into the Dakotas some years and thousands of them in the Minneapolis metro area every winter.

The last piece of data that comes to mind is harvest change by state in the past 20years. A lot of states harvest went way up with 60 days and extended frameworks. At the same time, a lot of states harvest went way down.
 
Hope the knee surgery went well.

I totally agree with Carl on several of the points he made. Locally, the duck commander effect has been our bane for the past some odd years. I can also remember pushing big flocks of mallards and black duck while cruising up the Hudson and we use to see decent numbers of Cans. Not so much anymore. I haven't seen any Cans in long time and the big flocks of Blacks and Mallards are just not there anymore. The section of river we hunt has never been what one would call a duck factory or even a substantial stop over, but it seems like the ducks just avoid the area now. This year was tough, the warm temps and large amounts of rainfall defiantly had there effects. I think more birds stayed North until much later into the season and those that did come down were greatly dispersed due to the large amounts of water. I think Overall, something has changed in the migration patterns with the ducks travelling down the Hudson River corridor. Lack of good habitat is a good possibility, perhaps the birds are shifting further West. Don't know? I'm worried that the new season NYS DEC has proposed for the next five years is going to have a negative effect; Oct. 19, 2019 - Dec. 1, 2019 and Dec. 7, 2019 - Dec. 22, 2019. I think the 44 consecutive days with no break is eventually going to chase ducks away as they will get no rest. I think eventually the pressure will move the birds as they will vacate to safer areas. I guess we will see. I would like to hear Anthony Coons thoughts on the our situation as he also hunts the same river.

  • Hunting pressure increased, the "Duck Commander Effect". We had fewer birds on smaller patches of habitat getting pounded by a pile of newbies in they UnderArmor clothes driving shiny brand new $15K boats screaming on $100 mallard calls over their 2 dzn new brand name decoys with their $4000 lab, sky blasting with their brand new 3.5" $1500 semis. If it wasn't so tragic it would have been funny. Where they got the money from is one big question I always had. And what they sold their boats for after finding out it ain't so easy is the other.
  • The 2 above seemed combine to change migration patterns. Yearling birds follow mom & dad south. If mom & dad change where they go, its reinforced in the next generation as they go where mom & dad went last year. Self-reinforcing process.
  • Warmer winters. This is the clincher. Most ducks will only go as far south as they need to. And lately they just simply haven't had to come south. If, as the data indicates, this warming trend continues, the southern states will winter fewer and fewer ducks.
 
Zane, I agree the northern Hudson (below Albany) has been some tough hunting these past few years, this past season it seemed the just never stopped. we had -20 degree weather for 3 days in Nov up north and that drove everything out. The new format for the southern Zone will be interesting to watch especially the close date of the 22nd ,Which I feel is too early.
 
Zane and Kevin, I too hunt the Hudson. This past season was by far my worst ever. I hunted quite a lot and saw a decent amount of birds exactly one day. I fear that the new dates for this upcoming season will make things even worse, if that's possible. The season dates are making me rethink my strategy, focusing instead on smaller waters.
 
My opinion is more along the lines of ease of hunting today verses how ever many years you want to go back. When I was in my 20?s all I had to do was hope in the car and drive 10 miles and I was in hunting Nirvana. And no pressure. As a matter of fact, my tree stand where I hunted deer (back when I hunted deer) is now my backyard and we have been here since 1991. The ponds I hunted back then are across the road or within a half mile or so.

Ten years ago I had a spot 15 minutes from here that was ideal. Weekend pressure was there but during the week I could pick any day, morning or afternoon, and have the place to myself. Not anymore. Now I have to drive over an hour to get to a spot like the one I used to hunt 30 days a season.

The close in public spots have become war zones and the good public spots where you had to drive a couple of hours were closed by a certainty president a few years back. Puts more pressure on the close in spots.

One guys opinion

Mark
 
What did you get done to your knee? I had a TKR last February went well and I'm doing OK.

I hunted Arkansas this past January, saw lots of ducks and shot a bunch. Seemed to me there was plenty of fowl.
 
Eric

First of all I hope your feeling better. All these guys make great points. Ducks are given a lot of spots to rest now days that can't be hunted. Weather is everything of course. But I do study the migration on and off. The number of birds are there for the most part. Mallards are down and so are geese. That's not me that's the Feds and a large number of States. I live in the Hudson Valley in Up State New York. South of Albany NY. The ducks on the Hudson River have dropped a great deal over the years. But I think besides weather the traffic on the waterways make a big difference. Bays that use to be loaded with ducks are now loaded in the early season with kayaks or jet skies. Out in Western NY They had a pretty good year and my guide called me up a few times to get up there. But Never in history has there been so many eyes on the migration of waterfowl as now days. I think your point of us the hunters having better days back in the day is true to a point. When I hunted the same spot back in the day the ducks were heavier. But there wasn't houses there or trails for people to walk and hike. Or a bunch of Kayaks running through my decoys. But later on in the year we might have that few days or a week. When you think that you went back in time. Weather is everything, Not just your weather the weather of the whole migration path.
View attachment IMAG1190.jpg
 
Eric,

There is a lot of, "it was better then" going on, and my evidence is anecdotal, but...

I heard of at least three of the larger, expensive clubs (six figure buy in) that normally kill 3500 birds every year that didn't make that this year...one was rumored to kill 400 in the opening split and then nothing appreciable until January....and they have habitat, water, food, rotate the gunning, rest areas, you name it. I know of one that is in its either second or third down year; they average 1000-1200 per year among 10 members, 1500 or more on great years...the past two years have been at or below half of their average. I know of some public land hunters who stopped going before the end of the season...this was the best water year we've had in a decade, in my opinion, and the few ducks we had really took advantage of it. If you killed ducks in one spot today, they were NOT there tomorrow, which is unusual for this area...good spots always hold ducks unless they are getting burned every day, until the last year or two. And some places get hunted hard and still produce ducks.

In talking with a few guides, even they are admitting at least their areas are changing; they used to stop hunting at 8:30 because it was either already done or not happening. Now, they stay out until 10:30 or 11 to try and get that one last flock or single or pair...and white-fronted geese are becoming a bigger part of the bag than they ever have.

I also heard several people say that they were killing noticeably more drake mallards than hens this year; one person who had logged it figured their normal kill was 20% hens, and this year was less than half of that...is the hen population down? That doesn't bode well for the entire flyway if it is... And the fact that Arkies are going to places like Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, and elsewhere isn't because they are bored....when they leave the green timber voluntarily during their own season, something is wrong...

I mean, honestly, there were reports that areas in Canada had open water until right around Christmas...Arkansas is just not getting ducks when that happens. Yes, I hold to the idea that there are migrators that come through no matter what, but without cold and snow to drive them, the bulk of the migration will stall out. Add to that:

1. Arkansas sells something like double the duck stamps it used to sell prior to 1999 (been a while since I've seen the numbers, so I may be off somewhat), with no significant increase in duck kill...so more people are killing the same number of ducks.

2. People in the 1970's, 80's, etc. were not as mobile as they started being in the late 90's and 2000's. Everyone had their area or two and hunted it; I know people who will drive across the State if the birds are in, not to mention people from South Carolina, Georgia, etc. who will drive all night to be at the ramp on Saturday morning and drive back home on Sunday afternoon.

3. Better gear, boats, mud motors, etc. means people will stay out longer, go deeper into the WMA's, and try to find those little pockets that before were not hunted as hard.

4. Leasing and lease prices are insane. The secondary and tertiary spots that nobody bothered with or were the, "yeah...my son hunts that over Christmas with his buddies if the water comes up..." are being leased and gunned consistently. Rice field pits are $7000 and up, depending, and those aren't the "good" ones...sometimes that also doesn't include water...that's just to be able to climb into the pit... Up until this past year, if you had a good spot, you might lose it next year to the guys willing to pay another thousand or so...I lost a great spot like that in 2001/02 when the owner told our group he would lease it to us the next year if we matched the offer he'd gotten of $15,000, and that would be one year only, going up after that.

5. Missouri figured out they could be as good as Arkansas and put money into building duck spots. When the RNT crew goes up to film at Habitat Flats with Ira McCauley, it isn't because they are just tired of shooting ducks in the timber. I know they show a variety of gunning, but you get my point.

6. Social media. All it takes is one picture of a guy with three mallards standing by the Bayou Meto WMA sign, and there will be a flood. People just don't keep their mouths shut; there is a whole group addicted to making sure everyone knows they are a Duck Hunter. Literally had someone tell me they got back to the landing this past year after a decent morning and some kids with the jacked up pickup, new guns, expensive boat, good decoys, etc. asked to "borrow their ducks to take a picture to post up"...they hadn't killed anything, but needed that picture...seriously.

I'm hoping this year was an anomaly, but Arkansas' duck hunting really has been on a decline for ten years, but again, in my opinion.

But that doesn't explain where the ducks go above us, either...places in Illinois and Iowa that used to kill ducks and have good flights just don't. Either the ducks are skipping them entirely, shifting east/west to areas of less light/noise/people, or ??? I would like to see gps data, but I wonder if the flyway hasn't shifted at least partially more towards the Central, for various reasons.
 
There's a whole lot of food for thought in everyone's replies and much of what you stated I heard similar thoughts at a state sponsored meeting this past January to discuss public hunting in North Alabama. Other issues like mud motor use(abuse) disrupting resting waterfowl were brought up. One of the things we learned during that meeting was there were studies being done to assess duck movement, particularly gadwall, and how regulations affect their daily patterns and huntability. Hopefully the research will shed some light on our issues locally and maybe extend to other areas.

As for the knee it is doing great. I had a simple arthroscopic surgery to clean up a torn meniscus and am already feeling back to normal and looking forward to starting to run again in the next month. I need to get some weight off and historically running works the best for me.

Thanks for your inputs.

Eric
 
Rick- I will say as a whole Iowa hasn't changed IMO over the last 25 years. There are good years and bad, but no pattern of change. Last year, it got REAL cold at the beginning of November, and most of the puddle ducks moved out. The divers stayed, like always. Weather always plays a part for us....Weather here, and weather north of us.
 
Running is hell on your knees, I prefer to bike a stationary bike and a mtn bike.

Go slow and see how your knee responds.
 
Tom V said:
Running is hell on your knees, I prefer to bike a stationary bike and a mtn bike.

Go slow and see how your knee responds.

I agree it can be tough on the knees but I enjoy it. Having said that I'm going to join the nearby gym and try out some of their equipment as an alternative to running.
 
I power walk about 1.5 miles every week day morning. Works for me. Do find myself having to watch carb intake more than i used too.
 
Interesting reading the opinions. I'm from far Northern MN and have hunted MN, Manitoba and Ontario from 1969 and on. These were duck years for us until into the 90's. Late season is when I hunt mostly and our last good Bluebill hunt was in 1994. Since then the numbers have been minimal at best. North Dakota has been wet since the early 90's and this is where our birds went-changing the migration route. Seasons weather has changed up here most years as well bringing us abnormally warm falls. Reading all of your intelligent thoughts makes me believe that we're all in the same boat. Take care.

Darrel Wick
 
Eric

I just watch your video, Its hard not to go along with what its telling us. But I think there are lots of reasons. Weather is number one I think. Here in New York State over the past ten years we have had cold weather early in the year. And some years where its been hot right through October into November . Not normal at all ! Years when the Hudson River iced up in early December. And open up in the first week of January. I think that the ducks are still around. They just have water everywhere and they have bunches of safe housing areas from State to State. We can only hope and pray that God balances out everything for us and the ducks. Nice Post!
 
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