Duckboats.net
Skip to Content


Home : Main Forums : Duck Boat/Hunting Forum :

Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR

Quote Reply
Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR
It was the largest building constructed in the 1200's, a massive construction undertaking at the time. When you walk inside the first thing that hits you is that the sanctuary is not that large, only extending up about 110', grading over to a series of massive timbers that extend upward another sixty feet or so to support the roof. Inside, the rooms don't smell moldy or damp, just an odd "old" odor. In the rooms behind the altar and sanctuary are a series of rooms containing artworks, paintings, statues, etc. including a portion of Joshua ben Miriam' s crown of thorns...all now destroyed or damaged beyond reclamation. A building that survived the 800 plus years post-construction that included the French Revolution and two world wars now gutted by a fire that likely damaged the sandstone walls beyond their tolerance range to function as support structures..

Easter weekend is spring break for many university students who travel in throngs via train to Paris to celebrate apring. We left from Bern. Switzerland, Kathi Rammsier, Pat Shinners, and myself, staying in a small mom and pop hotel in a Paris suburb for four days while we toured Paris.

A very sad day, and an even sadder sight to behold as thousands watched in near-silence as it burned and the spire collapsed. NOW, the monies and promises pour forth for a full restoration...
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
The timing of this fire at the start of Holy Week make a person wonder why it happened now. A sad day indeed but someone on high must have a larger plan.
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
 
Gordie Schmitt wrote:
The timing of this fire at the start of Holy Week make a person wonder why it happened now. A sad day indeed but someone on high must have a larger plan.





Amen to that.











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
RLLigman

What a dang shame, Holy Week is here and so many people wanted to go there this time of year. It makes you wonder with the timing of the fire. Good news is many people have already pledged money to rebuild it. It will never be the same but a great remember what was once there. Happy Easter
anthony sr
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
Rick and Guys,
A couple of my thoughts on the Notre Dame fire.

1) How eery it was to see the stained glass rose window illuminated from within... by fire!

2) Every Humanities 101 class in college will have to adjust its greatest example of Gothic architecture from what was to what is.

3) France is one of the most secular countries in the world. It was heartening, however, to see so many French people on their knees, in public, on the pavement, praying and singing Christian hymns, including Ave Maria, loudly and proudly. Perhaps this might stir a spiritual renewal in France?

4) Especially since this is Holy Week, I think this fire created a bond among Christians worldwide. We all know the value of these historic churches. But the partial destruction of Notre Dame harkens back to Jesus' comments about the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem that would take place about 37 years later in 70 AD: "destroy this temple (referring to his body) and in three days I will raise it up."

Buildings, including churches are important, but not most important!

May Notre Dame be rebuilt and may The Faith be rekindled!

Larry

Last edited by:

Larry Eckart: Apr 16, 2019, 5:05 PM
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
 
Pastor, I like my State and my Church to be broadly separated; the broader the better. I simply look at the political dynamic that is at play here at the national level in the United States of America to get the full: "Why?" I smile broadly when the evangelical community endorses DJT's actions. Policy apparently takes precedence over practice...when it comes to being a good evangelical, or conservative.

I admit, I am not a fan of theologies built around the concept of original sin. The Universe is a big place, a very very big place... Man and his deities are simply a very small aspect within that constantly changing tableau. Individually, I am not willing to judge my fellow for what they opt to believe, nor am I willing to condemn or kill them. I don't think that makes me any more than a functional human being. It certainly doesn't make me wrong; or right! Maybe that is the conundrum...
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
RL: Amen.
James Woods
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
 

"A person can be spiritual but not religious. For many, nature can be a church." - Pope Francis











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
I was there nine years ago. Amazing when you think it is built on an island in the Seine river and in the 1200's they dug way down to lay the foundation and kept the water out. The history hit me when I walked in, How many weddings, funerals, how many famous people walked the aisle? Hitler? saints? artists? writers? World War two GI's? Then looking at the structure how did they accomplish something so massive back then?
Makes you realize ancient humans only lacked technology not brain power.
Second thought was had something like that happened in our capitol would people be on their knees praying or singing hymns?
Seems like we lost our way.
Ken
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
 Was there 30 years ago and felt the same, The Cathedral of Paris is second only to Rome for Catholic's. France is predominately Catholic ,a true loss of a national treasure. Already a billion donated to rebuilding it.
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
Ken, how many tragedies, most involving loss of life as well as property in this country are or were NOT followed by prayer vigils to mourn the loss of life and property? Our country has suffered massive floods, horrific tornadoes, hurricanes and man invoked tragedies in the form of mass shootings at houses of worship, schools, work places, entertainment venues that, in all instances, have been met with quite similar spontaneous displays of empathy, public grieving and condolences. I would counter your statements by proclaiming that we Americans actually behave at our best in the immediate response interval to these tragedies. Consistently, average human beings, as individuals as well as in spontaneous and organized groups, have stopped in the middle of these moments of chaos and destruction to rescue people and diminish loss of both life and property. Volunteers and NGO aid groups have flocked to the site of damage to aid in rebuilding efforts and to care for those displaced. YOU see what you look for. Have we really lost OUR way? Or, have we become so callous to these events that we fail to make note of the prayer, and consequent mass gatherings, as well as individual acts of fellowship and outreach that occur spontaneously in the wake of these events... Is our attention span now eroded to sound bite interval length?

I would advance that we have "lost our way" when we support, fail to actively challenge, and directly or indirectly condone the divisive, often deceitful serial lies, distortions, and antithetical behavior of a president and administration who seek to divide, disturb and destroy normal discourse as a routine means of distracting the Public's focus, while working to achieve an end-goal of erosion of Public unity and shared perspective to take action to deal with the difficult, but not insurmountable core problems confronting this Nation. Unlike DJT's claims, I did not see huge groups of Muslims celebrating in the interval after the 9/11 attacks, nor did anyone else. I did not advance a false claim that my predecessor was not an American. I do not hold my press as the "Enemy of the People, or State'. I don't demonize those who are not members of my specific political ideological faction, simply because they disagree with me irrespective of party affiliation. Nor do I attack my political opponents, Republican and Democrat, in an effort to diminish them individually in the Public's eye, often simply to feed the hate within my base of political support. IF, we have 'lost our way', as you state, that departure and/or deviation has occurred via erosion o civil discourse, as well as civil debate and discussion, and has been directly and consciously damaged, as well as indirectly condoned via the tone and tenor set and displayed by the chief executive. All you need do to secure an example of his stark departure from the norms of communication can be achieved via a comparison of the inauguration speech iterated by our current resident of the White House with those of ALL previous president's inauguration speeches.

I am not buying the gloom and doom story that DJT is selling...because there is no past-tense interval in our history that I want to reconstruct or revisit, particularly via the means and tactics he advances as acceptable behavior.

As the woodsman's saying goes: You have to know what the woods look like, to recognize the unusual...and, that, requires that you pay attention consistently to your surroundings and not allow distractions to interfere with your insight.

Last edited by:

RLLigman: Apr 18, 2019, 8:48 AM
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
RLL,
I agree with a lot of what you say. My limited travels in Italy and France made me notice that many citizens lives there revolve around the religious calendar in contrast to stores restaurants etc open on Easter Christmas and so forth here.
In Italy I saw many religious icons on their homes everywhere.The stark contrast I saw in Paris was people on their knees praying and singing during the event made me feel they were trying to improve what was happening thru prayer. Many young people included. I agree with you on the tone set by the president which creates division and hate. The video of Parisians praying and singing showed me unity and love. Contrasting what comes out of DC. That was my point much like yours.
Ken
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
My understanding is this site is about boats and duck hunting and not your dislike of the duely elected president of the United States.
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
RLL -

It never ceases to amazes me the number of people who claim President Trump is full of lies and whatever. If there was a truly bipartisan discussion that would present both sides of the last two years and have an honest discussion, that is what would heal this country. Talk about collusion and conspiracy and you don't have to look any farther than the democrats and the left wing media.

After 4 investigations of President Trump, millions of pages or documentation, thousands of search warrants, no executive privilege exerted, hundreds of depositions in front of a grand jury, no collusion was found. No conspiracy was found and no obstruction was found. It the democratic resourced Mueller investigation team could have recommended President be charged with something they would have.

Stop drinking the Koolaide and open you eyes. And no, I am no big President Trump supporter but am very concerned about the attempted coup and impeachment of a duly elected President of the United States. How this all started, who was involved and all the crimes committed to getting President Trump have to come to light and be prosecuted to the fullest. Otherwise it will happen again and again.

Mark

Last edited by:

Mark W: Apr 20, 2019, 9:08 AM
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
The bee hives made it through unscathed too!

Tom
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
Tom Wall wrote:
The bee hives made it through unscathed too!

Tom


I read that. Said the smoke helped to save them, and they stoked up on honey prior to and during the blaze.

Nature IS amazing.


Best regards
Vince











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
Mark W wrote:
RLL -

It never ceases to amazes me the number of people who claim President Trump is full of lies and whatever. If there was a truly bipartisan discussion that would present both sides of the last two years and have an honest discussion, that is what would heal this country. Talk about collusion and conspiracy and you don't have to look any farther than the democrats and the left wing media.

After 4 investigations of President Trump, millions of pages or documentation, thousands of search warrants, no executive privilege exerted, hundreds of depositions in front of a grand jury, no collusion was found. No conspiracy was found and no obstruction was found. It the democratic resourced Mueller investigation team could have recommended President be charged with something they would have.

Stop drinking the Koolaide and open you eyes. And no, I am no big President Trump supporter but am very concerned about the attempted coup and impeachment of a duly elected President of the United States. How this all started, who was involved and all the crimes committed to getting President Trump have to come to light and be prosecuted to the fullest. Otherwise it will happen again and again.

Mark


Mark, you would be well served to actually read Mr. Mueller's findings. He stated that in his role as a prosecutor within DOJ he could not bring formal obstruction of justice charges against a sitting president (DOJ employees cannot do this), nor could he exonerate him of those charges. His consensus finding was that it was Congress' responsibility to determine, based on the evidence provided whether DJT committed obstruction of justice....a bit different than your statement, well actually, not even close to what you contend.

Mr. Mueller also documented the unprecedented extent of Russian meddling in the 2016 election, including attempting to break into county level election office's computers, extensive fake news stories and social media postings, chat groups, etc. Based on the depth and breadth of their efforts, neither you nor I can state with confidence that DJT is duly elected.

A baker's dozen investigations at the Federal level are still proceeding based on evidence uncovered via the Mueller convened grand jury, as well as his group's evidence based and directed investigations into DJT and his finances via the Federal courts in a variety of jurisdictions.

Coup and attempted impeachment are rather strong words, spoken based on what evidence?

I've included a media bias assessment to enable you to identify the left wing media "conspirators" you feel are skewing our information via the Fifth Estate. This doesn't quite "square" with your contention on that front either.

I usually make a point of reading several media analyses of specific national and international news story. For the conservative perspective I usually rely on the WSJ or The Hill.




Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
I have read some of the report and have following the whole made up investigation since the beginning.

1. You are right, Muller can?t charge anyone. It he can recommend actions to Congress. None were made.
2. Russian hacking into the election started in n 2014 under Obama?s term. He chose to do nothing. Speculation is that he didn?t want anything to get in the way of his failed nuclear deal with Iran. He needed Russia on board. So Russia tried interfering with the election has nothing to do with Trump.
3. The Trump campaign and all who worked for him were told by the President to fully cooperate with Mueller. It?s in the report.
4. Trump never exerted executive privilege. It is in the report. Unlike Obama who exerted privilege over the fast and furious investigation.
5. Asking Comey if he could find a way to go easy on Flynn is not obstruction.
6. Trumps finances have nothing to do with collusion. Yet another witch hunt
7. The dems have Ben talking impeachment everyday since Trump was elected. CNN mentioned impeachment something close to 500 times yesterday. Maxine Waters has been calling for it forever. What planet have you been live my on. I?ll bet you any amount of money you will hear the call for impeach mint a few hundred times in the next week. And your amount.
Quote Reply
Re: Notre Dame cathedral fire-NDR In reply to
Mueller concluded that Congress could make "obstruction-of-justice statutes applicable to corruptly motivated official acts of the president" without infringing on Mr. Trump's constitutional rights, according to the redacted report released Thursday. CBS News

His group dedicated a couple hundred pages to documenting those acts, beyond his statements to James Comey, incluuding repeated instances of interference in the investigation, both publicly and behind the scenes, including pressuring DOJ officials and requesting several people to lie regarding actions he requested they take when they refused his initial request. Obstruction of justice does not actually require acts or action, all a prosecutor need do is to prove criminal intent. It also does not turn on the investigation of the potential crime being proven true with respect to the action taken to obstruct.

I'm confused: President Obama confronted Vladimir Putin via the "red phone" with the body of evidence that US intelligence had in-in hand at the time, warning him to cease the efforts. This was followed by eventual seizure of property(Russian resort compound on the east coast), sanctions, and sending a couple dozen Russian diplomats home. I realize Faux News likes to gloss over these acts; why they do not rate as an accurate and truthful news source. No, I am not a CNN listener, either.

What sweeeeeeeeeeeeeping measures has DJT taken to make sure that this level of intrusion into our national election process will not happen again? I can tell you what he, and Congressional Republicans have blocked via their majority,. prior the mid-term elections. All punitive actions taken post-election have been initiated via Congress. Think about that for awhile.

Apparently, you opt to miss-remember DJT's statements at the Helsinki, Finland summit following his direct conversation with Putin -you, know, the one where no other US official was allowed to be present and the interpreter's notes were withheld from Congress once they were requested. If that is appropriate presidential conduct in your eyes, we have very different standards and expectations of a sitting president when in direct communication with our principal adversary. Vilifying this country's intelligence agencies and denying their consensus conclusions and advice is not acceptable, to me, and about 60% of the voting public in this country.

I would, again, encourage you to read the report, not some talking head's interpretation of it.

I think potential crimes of money laundering, miss-statements and falsification of financial documents as well as tax documents, miss-use of funds for a 501(c)3 non-profit, violations of the campaign finance laws involving accepting money from foreign governments, etc. are quite serious, and if proven true via a chain of evidence indicate the behavior of a chronic criminal. You and I have different standards of behavior and conduct that we hold our chief executive to, if you view these as inconsequential. All of these investigations have been deemed supportable via initial evidence within the Federal courts system. That in itself does not support your contention that they constitute a witch hunt. Overall, yes, his finances do have everything to do with a variety of collusion, just not collusion with the Russian government or their representatives to aid in securing election to the presidency, which Meuller's team documented that the Russians repeatedly offered help and aid, but DJT, did not seek them out and never followed through on the contacts and meetings that did occur.

I also find it oddly coincidental that DJT's older sister, a Federal judge, just opted to retire from the bench when she was challenged with a financial wrongdoing investigation of her families tax payments and finances, effectively blocking that inquiry.
https://www.nytimes.com/...conduct-inquiry.html

There is a fascinating piece that Frontline ran, titled The Choice. In it the authors outline those factors in the life of both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump that had major influences on who the came to be, both in terms of accomplishments and individual personality. I was shocked to discover that Roy Cohn, was hired by DJT's father to guide and provide counsel to DJT when he started his real estate career. Mr. Cohn was a thoroughly despicable man who served as counsel during the McCarthy hearings. He used his position to threaten to expose young men by threatening to expose them as homosexuals unless they accepted his advances., a truly gruesome sexual predator, miss-user of the law, serial liar, and swine of the first order who destroyed countless lives and careers during those hearings. This is the man Mr. Trump chose to guide his son's actions and behavior in business.

Four hundred forty-eight pages of documentation does not meet the definition of "made up". The Mueller investigation's overall cost is the equivalent of four presidential trips to Mar-a-Lago...which DJT spent via his "excursions" in the first six months of his presidency: one one-thousandth of the cost of the four new aircraft carriers DJT has decided to build and deploy, despite our new 1.2 trillion dollar deficit, created courtesy of his 'beautiful tax cuts', which "sunset" for the middle class in six years. They required 3% plus economic growth to pay for themselves, as projected by Mrs. Ross and Munichin and guaranteed by Larry Kudlow. Real world economists were not as rosey...and they turned out to be right. How odd.

"Curiouser and curiouser.".. Charles Dodgson aka "Lewis Carroll"