Your opinion on motors without power trim/tilt...

Larry Eckart

Well-known member
Guys (and Dani),
Last January I was sitting in a duck blind with two friends and a guide and I brought up the notion that I might sell my 15' Whaler for a more multi-purpose boat. Said my friends, "I thought you loved your Whaler." Said Larry, "I do. But I'd like a more flexible boat for hunting and fishing." Said one friend: "You go through a lot of boats." Said Larry, "Truth be told!" Said the guide: "IT'S A DISEASE!" We all cracked up laughing.

I told my wife this story and she said, "If it's a disease you better get cured." No, she wasn't smiling!

Alas, I am going to sell my beautiful Whaler although I will wait until people get back to work and things settle down. It's not a good time to sell a boat.

This is, however, a great time to buy a boat. I am looking at used 16' Lunds, either the Rebel or Laker models with a flat floor. These are usually powered by a 25-40 hp motor. I have a ready made Pop Up cover blind from years ago that will completely cover that style of boat, but this will be a fishing boat first and a hunting boat second.

This leads me to a question to you all. My first thought was that power trim/tilt was mandatory. I am 65, in good shape, but still 65. Probably prefer a four stroke but I am not prejudiced against two strokes, especially Yammies.

I recently saw a 16' Lund with a 2001 30 hp Yamaha two stroke without power trim/tilt.

Here is where I would like your input: what's your opinion on a motor that size (136 lbs) at my age without power trim/tilt? I know someone will say, "how will you use it?" Well, I live in the Raleigh area. That means lakes and some sheltered salt water bays. And, God willing, trips to Michigan to both hunt and fish where I lived for 25 years. Any serious outdoor use can not get around motoring in shallow water.

What's your opinion on motors without power trim/tilt in general and using one as you get older?

I appreciate your input.

Larry
 
Larry

30 hp is right at the high edge of what you can still raise and lower manually with todays heavier 4 strokes, IMHO. I would be okay with it but it's hard for me to say you would or wouldn't. The question to me is how often do you raise your motor? If you raise it a lot I'd want power tilt and trim. If only when trailering then manual would be okay with me. One thing to consider is if if the motor has hydraulic assist or not. Those gas cylinders prevent the motor from raising and lowering quickly and cause you hang on every stump and log you come across. The motor will not kick up and over like smaller two cylinder 25hp motors do that have a manual latching mechanism and no hydraulics. If you get any sort of hydraulic cylinder, be it power tilt or simply non-motorized assist (assist tilts are under pressure and help balance the load), you will want a breakaway plate or the motors will hang on every underwater object and then you will have to raise and lower the motor to get unsnagged. Hydraulic fluid can't flow though those little holes fast enough to let a motor pup up and over an obstacle The link below shows a typical breakaway mount. They let the mot pivot up and down when an obstacle in encountered. If you have smooth bottom lakes it isn't much of an issue.

https://thmarinesupplies.com/...130-break-away-mount

Eric
 
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I have had a Yamaha f40 on my boat for nearly 20 years, it does not have power trim. There are times I wish I had it, but it is ok without. The motor I have is quite a bit heavier than the 30 but it is well balanced with a spring assist to help tilting. I like to be able to unlock the motor and run in case hit a rock (happens [whistle]). To operate the release requires a lot of mobility to turn around and reach real low to unlock to tilt. When reaching to unlock the motor is a bit to manhandle When you have to let go of the tiller to adjust. If you do a lot of tilting, like running through shallow stretches, it may be an issue if you are getting a little less nimble (it is a pain for me and always has been, but I don?t do that often).

I?d think you would want to just try it in the boat. I?d think you could get by. I?d worry a lot more about electric start than power trim on a duck boat.
 
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Larry;
As Eric has said, everyone is a bit different in their physical capabilities. That said I have a 25 hp two stroke Yamaha with no power tilt or trim. I can trim the motor to either shallow water drive position simply by applying downward pressure on the tiller handle (reverse lock disengaged of course). Grab the hood and raise it to full tilt with no issues.

I suspect my 25 two stroke, will weigh quite a bit less than a 30 or 35 four stroke. I'm not sure how much heavier the 30 two stroke would be than my 25 two stroke. I also suspect, in the long run, I would NOT be happy without power tilt/trim on a heavier motor.

Eric has a valid point if you traverse log infested waters.

PS. I have a couple years on you. I'm a 1951 model. [pirate]
 
I have a 25 Yamaha 2 stroke that I use on a AA Blackjack. I am 61, and it is OK for pulling it up or raising it to run in shallow water, which is a frequent occurrence in the tidal water I hunt. It is fine and not that strenuous, but it's about as far as I would want to go as far as motor size using it that way.
 
Larry,

I run a 35 hp Honda on my duck boat. It does not have power trim, and I handle it OK, although I notice (at age 66) that it seems to be getting heavier! If I were going to replace it, I would want power trim. Not critical, but in the "would be nice" category.

I wonder how much additional weight the PT adds? There 4 strokes are not light.

Matt
 
Larry, I just purchased a new Yamaha 25 four stroke for my TDB. It weighs 126 pounds. I really like the motor, and the release to tilt is on the front just below the tiller handle so you don't have to reach down and behind the transom to release the shallow drive as Todd pointed out. My old 15 hp two stroke Johnson weighed 86 pounds with the shallow drive release behind. I no longer wanted to lean out over the back of the boat to release the mechanism. The 25 is as large as I would go without power trim and tilt.

RVZ
 
Rick,
Yes, I have looked at the Mr. Pike also. That whole line of SSV, Mr. Pike, Rebel and Lakers are great crafts for multi-purpose use.

I find that the regional preference for boats is interesting. On the east coast Lund boats are much more common on Craigslist in Maine, than any other state on the east coast. In the midwest, the closer you get to Minnesota, the more frequently Lunds appear on Craigslist with Minneapolis being the sweet spot. Of course that is the area where Lunds are manufactured.

Hope the UP is treating you well.

Larry
 
I've never had a motor under 90 hp with PT/T but friends who do sure like them. My biggest fear is a dead battery or mechanical failure so I've shied away. My large duck boats have Johnson 40hp 2-strokes with the gas assist cylinder, which I distrust because they failed on two of the four such motors I own. This is a distinct possibility with the PT/T, there would be a lot of foul language if it happened with the motor fully tilted miles from port. Never had a problem manually tilting motors up to 25hp, I'm headed for 60 this year. On all manual tilt outboards my standard trim method is to unlock the lower unit, put it in reverse and gently goose it up the desired amount. Don't stand up if you don't have to, safety first. [smile] Works fine under normal conditions, but in an emergency such as line wound in the prop, not so much. Obviously muscle is required for full tilt, maybe I should start thinking more about the powered systems before nature forces my hand. [:/]
 
SJ Fairbank said:
My large duck boats have Johnson 40hp 2-strokes with the gas assist cylinder, which I distrust because they failed on two of the four such motors I own.

SJ, My Merc 40 went through 3 of those gas assist tilts. Each failure was the same - small leak and slow loss of pressure. My service man says he's never seen a higher failure rate on an outboard part. Everyone of those things must be a failure waiting to happen. When my third unit failed I replaced it with a power tilt. But Like I mentioned earlier all hydraulic systems "hang" on any obstacle that the motor needs to kick up and over. A breakaway plate is the best add-on for stumpy waters.

Eric
 
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Eric,

Interesting to hear your experience with the Mercs. On the OMC's failure consists of locking the motor in position, if it's tilted up you're stuck in the field. Full replacement costs $1,200+, although I've been able to unstick one of mine with a torch and some oil. My understanding is that this one failure-prone part cost OMC (now BRP) the market in remote areas of Alaska and Canada where they were historically dominant.
 
Rod VanZile said:
Larry, I just purchased a new Yamaha 25 four stroke for my TDB. It weighs 126 pounds. I really like the motor, and the release to tilt is on the front just below the tiller handle so you don't have to reach down and behind the transom to release the shallow drive as Todd pointed out. My old 15 hp two stroke Johnson weighed 86 pounds with the shallow drive release behind. I no longer wanted to lean out over the back of the boat to release the mechanism. The 25 is as large as I would go without power trim and tilt.

RVZ

Forward mounted release would be great.
 
Eric Patterson said:
SJ

Do you think the designer got canned or promoted? [smile]

Eric

Probably got a job designing the anti-stall protection on the 737MAX, since he had expertise in trim/tilt equipment.
 
Just purchased a new 25 PTT Tohatzu outboard last summer to power a 1648 jon I refurbished to use when hunting solo instead of dragging out the 2072. I really like the PTT. Lets you hit the sweet spot when boat has various loads on it . Had a 2 stroke 25 merc w/o PTT I ran on a Blackjack for several years and tilting wasn,t really a problem but a lot lighter than this new 25. Got spoiled w a 2 stroke 40 merc w/PTT on a previous 1756 Lowe and don,t think I,d go without it from 25 hp up if available in what I was looking at. Still use a 15 2 stroke w/o PTT on my 15' Ghenooe but unlocked it tilts easy enough to just push down on tiller handle to slide over obstacles or raise for shallow water drive.
 
roy brewington said:
I really like the PTT. Lets you hit the sweet spot when boat has various loads on it .

I was going to mention this also. I'm fine when running solo. The seats in my boat are basically a square bucket for a base and not bolted down at any specific location. When I have a 2nd person with me, I sometimes ask them to adjust their location a little to trim the hull. A 3 inch change in location is usually all it takes.

Having PTT would easier accomplish the same thing, without stopping for them to change their location. (I don't expect them to stand up and move their seat while we are still moving.)
 
Two new pieces of information for me from your helpful comments:

1) Using reverse to help lift a manual tilt motor. Duh! You would think I would have remembered that.

2) A forward located tilt release. Now that's a great safety device. Anyone know when/if that became standard equipment? Leaning and bending over the stern is not the best safety position.

Larry
 
I had a CNC power tit and trim unit that my kicker mounted to, with set-back brackets that attached the whole thing to the transom. That Outrage 21' is now owned by a nurse who is the OR supervisor. We passed each other several times last spring while trolling off the mouth of the same tributary to Superior, he said everything was still working well. They also make a seperate unit for larger outboards. The one thing that new tiller operated motors have that is VERY worthwhile, shift lever on the tiller. Lunds tend to dominate in walleye fishing geographies as well.
 
I find this thread fascinating. My fishing boat/layout tender has an old 50hp 4-cylinder Mercury. It does not have power tilt/trim, nor does it have any sort of assist cylinders of any kind. It's actually on the heavy side for a 2-stroke fifty. I have never had any trouble tilting it up to clear the prop or to change the pin location to trim the boat. I have never had much upper body strength, and now, turning 65 this year, I have even less. What are you guys doing differently that causes this to be an issue? Did Mercury somehow design this model to have its weight more forward over the transom so it balances better? Are 4-strokes just harder to tilt because of their different weight distribution? This just never seemed to be an issue for me. I wouldn't even consider buying power tilt/trim on any motor unless it was considerably bigger/heavier than the one I have now, or unless it was mounted in such a way that I could not gain easy access to it.
 
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