Northern White vs Atlantic White Cedar

M

Matt Mahoney

Active member
The term cedar is used interchangeably for tree species that are not even related. Northern white and Atlantic white are good examples, as they are members of two different genera. But, they have similar properties and are both used for planking boats and for carving. I have access to both, Northern on our trips to Maine and Atlantic closer to home.

Wood & canvas canoe folks prefer the working properties of Northern white cedar, and I'm wondering what the experts here on Duckboats preference is for carving decoys. Is there a preference due to working/painting properties, or is preference based upon local availability?

Thanks,

Matt
 
Matt

I hope someone will answer your question because Id like to know. My late friend told me many times of the differences and preferences but I have forgotten most of his explanations. I do seem to recall that Atlantic was preferred for boat building and carving, at least by Jeff, but I don't remember the reason. I do clearly remember Jeff telling me that in truth there are no cedars in North America, only trees that reminded settlers of cedars from where they came from. Google searches show this is the case. We only have trees that "look" like cedars even though that is what they are called.

Eric
 
That's true Eric. Red cedar is Juniperus, Atlantic white is Chamaecyparis, Northern white is Thuja (arbor vitae) etc. I think the only true cedars (Cedrus) are non-native ornamentals.

I guess that's why Latin binomials are important. So that we don't get confused and misinformed!

Matt
 
What a great topic. Our house in CT is on an island in an Atlantic white cedar swamp, I'm looking out the window at it. The pollen is brutal when it drops, some mornings in May it's hard to get out of bed. Many decoys were made from trees harvested in that swamp. I have also used Northern white cedar for boats and decoys, trucked from Maine. Truth be told, without both in hand I can't say I can tell the difference. Within a given tree, or stand, density and grain can differ substantially. If I had to pick one it would be Atlantic simply because the material I have used had fewer knots and voids. I also believe the Atlantic is less susceptible to bugs (ants, termites) when drying, but that's just my observation.

We also have some red, pretty much impervious to bugs and rot when used for fenceposts or rails.
 
Used Maine, Vermont, and Jersey white cedar and have been pleasantly pleased with all. My only negative on Vermont seems to be with branch parts and a few more knots. Have learned to live with all.
For planking, you really want clear material. Might be a bit pricier, BUT worth the cost. Having the stuff in your swamp might make things easy if you can get it out and off to a mill!
 
Good morning, Matt et al~


I am using both Atlantic and Northern more in recent years. I've been getting nice clear Atlantic at the Tuckerton show and love it for bodies.



On the other hand, I was given a nice balk of clear northern that has been wonderful to carve. I do not think I could tell the difference if I didn't know the provenance of each piece I've used.



I used Chamaecyparis for the body on this Black Duck - hollowed.


View attachment sm 01 Cedar Black Duck - fully carved.jpg



The body for this Brant is from Thuja - also hollowed.


View attachment Brant - faired after glueing.JPG



I will be using Atlantic planking stock when I restore a Sneakbox later this year. The stock I bought for that - also at Tuckerton - is not clear but the few knots are small and tight.


I have carved one decoy out of Western Red Cedar. Way too splintery for my tastes - but it is what Al McCormick used for all his heads - with his specialized tools. I carved this head to Al's pattern from a nice block of Juniperus. I finished it with varnish to show the grain.



View attachment AM Tribute Head - sanded and burned - STBD.jpg



I do use WRC as bases for my shorebirds and flyers. Easy to shape and sand and nice grain.


View attachment BB Plover - on base A.JPG



Regarding the common names for these wonderful woods.... Next time you're at Tuckerton, I suggest you ask any of the veteran Sneakbox builders where you might find some nice Chamaecyparis.....


All the best,


SJS

 
For building a traditional garvey I used Atlantic White Cedar from Schairer Brothers in Egg Harbor, NJ.

http://www.schairerbros.com/about.html
 
Good morning, Richard~


Thanks for the lead. I bought some very nice AWC at the Tuckerton show from:


McKay Wood Products
Ed McKay
2008 Boreas Road
Nesco, NJ 08037


609-204-7680



Ehmcedar@aol.com


All the best,


SJS





 
Steve,

Scharier Brothers seemed to be the dealer of choice for people on the Wooden Boat forum when I was asking for sources. If you keep an eye on the Jersey Shore Craigslist usually there are small sawmills that will advertise having AWC.

Finding long lengths of clear stock will be an issue. I had to scarf planks together to get the length needed. Why most people have switched to Western Red Cedar for boat building.

Rick Lathrop
 
To start, I am prejudiced towards the AWC because that is the traditional carving/sneakbox wood for Southern New Jersey and nothing beats walking a sawmill to pick wood for the next project. In the past my Dad and I did purchase what we called Maine cedar that was kiln dried and brought down in bulk. It carved fine. I didn't find the Northern cedar to be as aromatic as the Atlantic and I have known some carvers to be somewhat allergic to it. One issue i found with the Northern was something called pencil rot which wasn't detectable until sawing out the bodies. Was a finger sized bore lengthways thru the board.
 

I've used them both for decoy carving, and carved some good decoys.

I like them.

They DO NOT like me and I'm very allergic to both, as are other carvers.

White Pine and Sugar Pine = no problem.
 
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