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Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins

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Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins
I've been lurking here some time ... great forum, full of great information.


After looking for the last 15-20 years for a good used (and cheap) TDB-17 somewhat close to me ... I found one! 1990, with hard cover and blind. $2,600 ... and the trailer is in great shape. Good price? I'm fairly certain the previous owner had little idea of the worth of these boats. His father owned it originally, who then sold it to his brother, who then sold it to my seller (his nephew). The last owner used it for fishing only. His uncle repainted the boat an allover tan, I may repaint next summer to return it to the "normal" paint scheme. The seller stored this boat outdoors, and didn't bother to clean it for the sale pics online, which probably hurt his opportunities to sell. I was convinced it needed an entire paint job at a minimum just based on online pics. First thing I did when I got it home was take it to the car wash ... world of difference! I've included the before and after photos, with the after photo showing shine only due to it being freshly wet. I'll be picking up the original blind this weekend, as his uncle found it in storage and drove it up to him. Pics included of this as well, I'm hoping it's mostly complete?

I crawled around the floor, pressing everywhere with the handle of a hammer looking for soft spots ... and found none. I trimmed up the old Evinrude, then (with his permission) put my foot on the prop and repeatedly put weight on the transom ... no flex to be found. I crawled under, and using the same hammer handle couldn't find anything in the hull that would give, or was soft either. Hopefully ... that was a good enough inspection? Anything else to look for? The small kicker was sold prior to me buying the boat, which is fine ... I have a 1959 Ducktwin that will go on that kicker bracket.

One other weird component (visible under the guide bunk in the "before" photo) is a through-hull fitting that is definitely below the water line. His uncle had a washdown pump, with hose attached in the interior. Why? He didn't know. I'm assuming these weren't standard? huh? Any advice on what to do with this? Just plug with a rubber expansion plug, or remove and repair fiberglass?

I plan on a re-power (50 horse 4-stroke tiller), rewiring, and adding interior decoy curtains as well. Also plan on Tuff-coating the floor, as well as the bow. Thank you in advance for any advice or thoughts as I make this boat marsh-ready again.

There's a wealth of information within these forums found with a few searches ... thank you!
















The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
$2,600? You gotta be kidding! That is the best price by far for a TDB-17 that I've heard of. Great find. I guess waiting paid off for you. Congrats and welcome.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Right? I felt mildly bad that I talked him off of his original $3,100, especially when I found out the cost of replacing the hard cover and blind was more than the whole package ... but then I got over it.

Thanks for the welcome, great site.

(edit: donation made, worth it)






The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.

Last edited by:

Tom Smedley: Oct 29, 2019, 8:33 AM
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Holy smokes, thats a good price!

The thru-hull might have been for a live/bait well, since they were using it for fishing??

What motor is on it now?


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Carl wrote:
Holy smokes, thats a good price!

The thru-hull might have been for a live/bait well, since they were using it for fishing??

What motor is on it now?


Good point ... maybe that hose went to a cooler. It's got a '90 Evinrude 40. Trim and tilt removed due to failure. In other words, a large anchor.






The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Tom~


Great find, indeed!


My partner (retired DU rep from LI Craig Kessler) has gunned a TDB 17 for many (20 +) seasons now. He pushes it with a 70-horse tiller motor.


Here it is in gunning mode in saltmarsh on Great South Bay. I include this just to show that the paint job plays little role when properly thatched up. [CLICK to enlarge]







On the other hand, the Salt Hay around the "coaming" of the canvas blind takes a beating during the season. Craig always has a few loose bundles on board to stuff wherever needed.



I always threaten to build a wooden blind (see my note to Dave Diefenderfer) to replace the canvas. It both protects the grass and gives much better (taller) wind and silhouette protection from upwind. I would make the "front" (the shooting) flap in 2 pieces (left and right)



All the best,


SJS

Steven Jay Sanford
Pencil Brook Farm
South Cambridge, NY
http://www.stevenjaysanford.com


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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
You did good! And your inspection procedure sounded spot on.... I had a '90 model year 17footer for about 10 years before I sold it. The main thing I see missing is your grass rail... the rails then were made of wood, so I wouldn't expect them to still be on it anyhow. It appears you are missing three of your stand up pipes for your blind... the blind looks to be in great shape.
Look forward to seeing you bring it back to it's former glory.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Congratulations, that is a very good price, assuming the boat remains sound!

From what I can discern from the blind pics you are missing three upright poles and on long pole blind brace in the rain roof panel with a missing pair of fittings. TDB at Olsen Marine will happily sell you all of these pieces. The long pole braces in the new TDB are a heavier gauge aluminum, so it may be worthwhile to order two and use your existing long pole for the rain roof application. Ebay sells a heat shrink plastic tubbing that I would recommend for your upright sections as a cladding. Olsen Marine will also happily sell you a new set of delrin grassing rails. What I would do is purchase some fiberglass rod and cut it into plugs and countersink it via epoxy mastic in the sections of the flotation chambers where you have rail stanchion mount points, prior using lag screws to anchor the railing sections, again coating the threads with epoxy or 3m 5200 as mastic.

Last edited by:

RLLigman: Oct 30, 2019, 2:29 AM
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
One additional point regarding your main power and auxillary motors.. IF you can swing going with matching four strokes in both applications you can simply run one fuel source and switch the fuel line back and forth from ONE tank. Also, stick a group 27 battery in the box, preferably an AGM If you have the 1990 electrical panel, I would suggest installation of a Perko battery selector switch or a Blue Sea VSR. This year while loading my blind panels I had on of them contact the breaker switch while loading. When it came time to launch, I had just enough "juice" to raise the motor before my battery died. Launched the boat and plugged in the on-board charger to have the batter recharged by morning and good to go.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
STEAL! Great boats congrats on the buy. Best of luck this season

Long Island, NY
http://www.Island-Outdoors.com

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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Nice find!!

Give Olsen Marine a call like Rick suggested, they are great to deal with.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
RLLigman wrote:
Congratulations, that is a very good price, assuming the boat remains sound!

From what I can discern from the blind pics you are missing three upright poles and on long pole blind brace in the rain roof panel with a missing pair of fittings. TDB at Olsen Marine will happily sell you all of these pieces. The long pole braces in the new TDB are a heavier gauge aluminum, so it may be worthwhile to order two and use your existing long pole for the rain roof application. Ebay sells a heat shrink plastic tubbing that I would recommend for your upright sections as a cladding. Olsen Marine will also happily sell you a new set of delrin grassing rails. What I would do is purchase some fiberglass rod and cut it into plugs and countersink it via epoxy mastic in the sections of the flotation chambers where you have rail stanchion mount points, prior using lag screws to anchor the railing sections, again coating the threads with epoxy or 3m 5200 as mastic.


I've read your refurbs, was hoping you would weigh in! I've already picked up a few ideas from your threads, so thank you. I believe the original owner ordered it without grassing rails ... as I can't find anything showing where the holes would have been. The son I bought it from thought the same ... he never remembers his dad having those rails on there. I've reached out to Liz @ Olsen Marine already, between her and Tom they've been extremely helpful. I'm getting together a wishlist of parts, and will order later this year. I'm holding off on the blind parts until I pick it up, good chance he just didn't take them all out of the box.

As far as your other comment, my main fishing boat is setup exactly as you described, with matching 4 strokes sharing the same gas. As a matter of fact, all of my fishing boats with kickers in the past were setup that way. With that '59 ducktwin however, it's too cool of a motor to leave it in the garage. That thing runs like a sewing machine, and has the weedless configuration to chew through rice and arrowheads. It NEEDS to be on the boat, just to keep it in service.

Thanks for all the congrats fellas ... I'm excited to finally have one. Anyone have any ideas with what to to with that washdown thru-hull fitting? Expandable rubber plug, good enough?






The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Well to aleave you of all these problems I,ll give you $2650 for it. Seriously you,ve scored bigtime!
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
I live just outside Marquette if you want to come up and do a walk-through of my boat.. I can also give you the dimensions to create a pattern for the decoy curtain panels. I was able to put Olsen Marine onto a higher quality 1000D Cordura that was a Berry Ammendment compliant mil-spec. prior ordering my replacement blind. When it was delivered, I realized that they were using a less resilient buckle system than the original Nexus units, as well as not sewing two way zippers on the blind roof edges to connect it. I made the upgrade suggestions after modifying mine to actually work in the rain, which required sewing-on Velcro runs on the bow and stern sections, as well as along the long runs on the sides, and adding five battens and pockets to hold them on the underside. As modified, water doesn't pool on the rain roof, depress the fabric, and then run into the boat as it did with the existing design Tony Homer devised.

One other thing to do prior starting your refurbish is to take a garden hose and insert it in the bow compartment PVC run that connects with the stern sump and flush all the crap that has likely accumulated in there out. You will be amazed how much stuff will flush out
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
RLLigman wrote:
I live just outside Marquette if you want to come up and do a walk-through of my boat.. I can also give you the dimensions to create a pattern for the decoy curtain panels. I was able to put Olsen Marine onto a higher quality 1000D Cordura that was a Berry Ammendment compliant mil-spec. prior ordering my replacement blind. When it was delivered, I realized that they were using a less resilient buckle system than the original Nexus units, as well as not sewing two way zippers on the blind roof edges to connect it. I made the upgrade suggestions after modifying mine to actually work in the rain, which required sewing-on Velcro runs on the bow and stern sections, as well as along the long runs on the sides, and adding five battens and pockets to hold them on the underside. As modified, water doesn't pool on the rain roof, depress the fabric, and then run into the boat as it did with the existing design Tony Homer devised.

One other thing to do prior starting your refurbish is to take a garden hose and insert it in the bow compartment PVC run that connects with the stern sump and flush all the crap that has likely accumulated in there out. You will be amazed how much stuff will flush out


Rick, thank you ... may take you up on that, as Marquette isn't terribly far away. I'll PM you.

I had previously read about the new Cordura you worked with Olsen on. I'm going to figure out a way to make this blind a "side-shooter", with a roof covering the black-hole that puddlers see from above.

I had also read (yes, almost everything TDB related I've read) about the flush-out you did, and plan on doing exactly that! Once weather warms up again next spring, I plan on quite a bit of work with Simple Green and elbow grease to clean the bilge area, the floor ... the whole boat. Your recommendation for Tuff-coat will drive my refurb of the floor, bow and cockpit coaming as well. The previous owner had bolted down a seat (with 2" lag bolts)huh?. He also had about 8 rod holders mounted. I plan on filling these holes (and various others) with Marine-Tex epoxy before I get going on the cleaning ... unless there are better options. I see a lot of TDB owners like collapsible chairs. We've always (in smaller v-hulls anyway) used a 30" square of sealed and carpeted Marine Plywood to bolt cushioned camo boat seats to. One of my buddies used 3/8" aluminum instead. Very stable, easy to move around where needed, can even take on shore. Damn heavy though with that Plywood. Not sure how the shower seats I read about would be received ... lol.

I'll take you up on those curtain dimensions. Mine never had them, as there are no hammock hooks, nor rails on the floor. The floor of my boat just gently slopes from under the shelf to the main floor. The top shelf has a wood railing ... does the bottom area need that as well to hold decoys in? I know someone who will sew, but I'm unsure if her machine is up to it. I'm just an hour away from the Gitch myself, so I suppose I could contact a few canvas shops up in the Bayfield Peninsula or Duluth to price out the job. In the end, it could be just as cost effective to buy new from Olsen Marine.


Roy ... tempting offer, but this sounds like a fun project, I think I'll keep it!






The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
TDB used aluminum awning track material epoxied to the work deck and then glassed over on the anchor tab on the decoy side in two separate runs per side for the base of the decoy curtains with hard vinyl welt on the panel bottoms. The metal tracks were a good idea, since plastic would likely be damaged quickly during use. I think standard welt would be more than adequate. The hammock hooks and hog rings are available through a variety of vendors in the marine market. In 1995 they started using delrin grassing rails, as well as a run of it on the shelving as a trim. There is another recent thread of a TDB-17' out on the eastern shore of Maryland that the owner opted to strip the oak rails and coat them with Tung oil coats to let the grain show through. Rick did a really nice job on that boat.

IF you go with the side shooter option, your rain roof's current configuration is already set-up that way. One point to consider, having had a 14' and 17' rigged this way: you need canoe seats/ turkey hunting folding seats to sit low enough to fully utilize the "hole". High birds are still a difficult shot to make when rigged as a side shooter. With the install of two-way zippers you can open shooter holes at custom sizes to accommodate large or small framed hunters by just unzipping the rain roof enough to provide room. I added some Velcro pads to the blind underside and their "mates" to the grassing loop runs to enable the open sections to be folded up and retained out of the way rather than hanging down into the boat. With a catalytic propane heater running, the interior remains pretty "toasty", enabling bare hands while shooting. Your third option would be to talk to Tom Olsen and determine if their second rain roof configuration could be adopted to your current blind. I think it could and would enable you to sit and shoot while still minimizing the "great black hole". I like to use a seat that enables me to get my feet under me to stand and shoot, so I use a Primos Double Bull archer's three legged stool with a camouflage boat throw cushion on it to get the seat height right. My hunting partner uses a heavy folding seat made by Slumberjack that is both durable and very comfortable for long sits in his Bankes Crusader. I was impressed enough to purchase two as well.

By using the folding seats you free-up space and you are not obligated to mounting your seats down the keel line of the boat since TDB's have better stability than a V-hull and most other duck boats, other than Bankes

I thought I had a pic of a TDB-17' with the alternate rain roof and frame, but I could only find this one of a 21' Sea Class with it added.

Last edited by:

RLLigman: Oct 30, 2019, 7:59 AM
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to

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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Thanks again RIck ... pretty simple design for that motor cover. Good to have them here (in case others ever need them through the search function).






The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Tom, this is a Bankes motor cover. As you can note from the pics, these are designed to be sewn from three pieces of Cordura 1000denier fabric; one long rectangular pieced that starts at the front of the engine housing and goes up and over the top. a second piece of fabric the wraps around the motor cowling with a pull-cord channel sewn into the base seam; and a third panel that drapes down both sides of the drive shaft and prop. to hide them. Stupid simple design and sew-up.

To custom fit it to you motor just measure the width of the cowling and add an inch per side for enough lee-way to slide it on. Measure the height of the motor cowling face from the tiller handle up and add this to your length of motor cowling measurement for the top. The second fabric panel just enclosed the sides and back of the motor cowling..

Cordura in 1000d usually comes in 60" width fabric panels. You can probably sew this up from two yards of material. Now reference your price quote you mentioned in the PM!!!! I would recommend two passes of 1" wide webbing for the top and two to three spaced at six inch intervals for the sides for grassing, assuming you will go with a one color fabric to make the cover.

If you want me to pull the actual dimensions from mine, let me know. But I would recommend just showing the pics to your seamstress.

Steve Sanford also has a very nice vignette on sewing up a motor cover...sure is a lot cheaper than $150.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Sorry, as I said, the boat is loaded to go duck hunting...


The rear panel length is 55" while the forward panel is 41". Note the cut-out windows for shock cord attachment to the hammock hooks. You can space these per your preference.

The last picture is of the base mount for the cockpit separation panel that Kondrk designed for the 17's to enable you to loose load your decoys in the bow area of the cockpit to deploy them from there. I use it to separate decoy bags from the dog.

Last edited by:

RLLigman: Nov 1, 2019, 3:01 AM
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
I was sure I had extra, but still can't locate them, so here is the source for 1/4" stainless hog rings:

https://www.boatoutfitters.com/...less-steel-hog-rings specify .25". You will need at least twenty per side to attach the shock cord to the curtain panels and secure the ends in loops to hook on the terminus Hammock hooks.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Perfect ... thanks for everything!

How was the hunt, birds moving a little better? My buddies gave it one last go up on Superior over the weekend, Goldeneyes and Bluebills were fairly solid, but just for the open water hunting ... the guys on the points didn't fare as well. Probably birds that have been around a bit.






The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Quick update ... snow has finally peeled back, and life has slowed a bit to allow me to start working on the TDB. Thank you for noticing I was short three support poles for the blind (I was). I ordered those direct from Olsen Marine so I could be sure of receiving the thick-walled tubes I needed. I also took Rick's advice, and ordered some of this to "clad" all the support poles:

https://www.ebay.com/...p2057872.m2749.l2649





This made the poles a little larger than 1", so I had to take a rasp to the openings in the fiberglass to get them to go through smoothly. All went well, the blind is now complete! I need to get some more components for the rain roof if I want it functioning ... that'll happen as well. All in all, gonna be a nice rig for $2,600 original price. Since then I've also hung a Tohatsu 50HP tiller on the back. The price is going up, but that's what boats are for ... right?






One other thing slowing me down a little ... say hello to "Banjo", he's all puppy, but should make a great duck dog if dad does everything right.












Holy hell ... sorry, don't know how to make those smaller. Brings his foot size to real-life though, doesn't it? He's going to be a chunker.






The bluebird can sing, but the crow's got the soul.
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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Tom~


Everything looks great - and it seems Banjo approves!


I'm wondering what your current thinking is re covering the hull with camouflage. As an Old School guy brought up around grassboats of all kinds on Great South Bay, I have made many, many feet of conventional thatch rails over the years. However, with a vessel like yours - and not knowing what you use to hide it with - I would consider a system using heavy shock cord and strap eyes at regular intervals. If you will be lashing bundles of vegetation to the boat, 2 rows of 1/4-inch or 3/8-inch shock cord ( https://www.paracordplanet.com/...3-8-inch-shock-cord/ ) rove through brass or nylon eye straps every 12 to 18 inches would keep your hide intact - even at trailering speeds. (Of course, you could easily fashion "eye straps" with wood, too.)



All the best,


SJS





Steven Jay Sanford
Pencil Brook Farm
South Cambridge, NY
http://www.stevenjaysanford.com


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Re: Finally found a TDB-17, now the work begins In reply to
Congrats. On your find. I?m the proud owner of a 1989 classic 17. Bought it from L L Bean. Still looks and performs great So many great memories in the boat.