Thinking of moving, but where?

R

Rob M

Member
My wife and I have been talking about moving out of New Jersey for a decade now and this whole "new world" we live in during COVID has had both of our careers working remotely for the last 8 months and at least into summer of next year. We are not tied by family and do not have kids so school systems are not a concern. I had my heart set on Upstate/Central NY for many years as there is a very good chance I would still be able to keep my current employment. Though being some of the highest tax rates in the country and the state being ran by Cuomo and the folks down in the city, the likelihood of NY being a place where we want to affordably live our lives seems out of the picture. My other concern is outside of Long Island, I am really not sure how well the duck hunting is, I have heard the Finger Lakes and Lake Champlain are amazing, but property and housing in those areas surely is not by any means moderately priced.

My number one priority is living somewhere with prime opportunities to hunt, specifically waterfowl and whitetail. Being in a location where access to retriever clubs and access to public/private hunting land is ideal. We are personally looking for a piece of property in the 50-100acre area for many reasons included equine use for my wife, food plots for hunting and the room to build a retriever training pond. Further adding to our huge list of wants/desires, is for an area that is in colder climates. I do not enjoy the heat by any means so I have no problem with lots of snow and the need for lots of wood heat! Im not saying I need the level of duck hunting known on the prairies, but ample duck and goose migrations are a must.

Of course work is a concern, but at my middle age I truly do not mind starting over with a career change at this point in my life. I am certainly good at what I do, but its just a means to an end to provide a funding source for my hunting habits, my career is certainly not a passion.

Interested to here where some of you are from, recommendations on states/counties and any other advice that can be provided. On a very high level and in no such order we have thought about the below states

New York
New Hampshire
Portions of Pennsylvania
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
North Dakota
South Dakota
Montana
Wyoming
 
Good luck with this and I hope you get a lot of responses.

I don't have a whole lot of experiences for most of those states listed, but I'll give you my thoughts about Montana. I am sure there CAN be good duck hunting, especially in the far east part of the state but in my travels through MT, ducks would have been an added bonus...not something to actually target most days. The days that I would consider targeting ducks were in the far east portion of MT. There could be LOTS but when I was there it was a here today, gone tomorrow kind of thing. I don't know if that is the norm though for duck hunting in that area of MT. I have also seen lots of Sandhill Cranes through those areas and I was never there when we could hunt them, which I regret now.

There are certainly ample opportunities for deer in MT. And lots of wide open spaces. I was shocked at land prices when Steve and I were contemplating buying small lots in specific areas of the state so that we had a place to set the RV up when we were going to hunt. The public hunting opportunities are incredible in Montana with Block Management, State Trust, BLM, National Forest and Upland Game Bird Enhancement Properties. I don't know a whole lot about the politics in the state, but I have an aunt there who might be willing to talk to you if you would like to talk to her about the state politics. She lives in the Helena area.

If you enjoy upland bird hunting, MT certainly offers a wide range of birds to pursue. Even in the leanest of years. Though in some parts of the state it is heavily dependent upon CRP and how much there is or isn't anymore. The northeast section of MT comes to mind on CRP coverage and how it relates to bird numbers.

I have contemplated quite often moving to MT because of how much I love the hunting there. Bird hunting begins Sept 1 and you can hunt some bird or another until mid January and there are turkeys in some parts of the state. However, I don't know if I could handle the cold in the winter. It's not just the cold, it's the wind that can really blow across the prairie. One of my favorite hunting areas over the next ten days, the highest high will be 35...the lowest low -3. That's pretty cold for mid October, at least over the last six years that I have really paid attention to that area. Two winters ago, there was so much snow many kids didn't get to school for a month. Septembers grouse hunting, the heat can rival FL. It is a dry heat and not so humid so it isn't as "bad" but there were certainly days up there that it was cooler back home in FL. The plus is the nights usually got considerably cooler than FL. Summers can be as brutal as down here in the south, especially if they don't get the rain they need. It is not uncommon for hail storms to accompany summer storms. BIG hail, though in scattered and localized areas. I remember one year we drove into town the first time that season, past the first house and I made Steve stop in front of a house, in one of the least populated counties in the lower 48, and I asked him who in the world hated that person so much...in the middle of nowhere... that they shot up that persons house in a drive-by. I mean the entire side of the house looked like it had been used for machine gun target practice. Turns out it was hail damage and the whole town suffered. Some people just didn't have insurance to fix their houses.

The wind can really, really blow out there. There were some days where I wasn't sure the camper wasn't going to be pushed over by some of the wind gusts. Also, like much of the west, fires and smoke can be common in the summer into the fall...especially near mountainous areas...though this year also out on the prairies, in case you or your wife have pulmonary issues you need to consider. This hunting season, from various accounts I have gotten, has been a particularly windy one throughout the state....some days too windy to really run dogs.

All of that said, Montana is a state that I still seriously consider living in....the cold is my biggest hang up as well as my specific skill set is very specialized and unless I went into private practice, the only place I could work in MT is Missoula. I love the wide open spaces of the prairies as well as the vastness of the mountains, the people were always incredibly friendly and helpful, I love the variety of game to hunt and the access to property to hunt. Prices for most everything was a bit higher than FL....not gas though. Propane is waaaaaay cheaper than down here in FL. There is no sales tax in MT, but there is an income tax....not sure if New York has an income tax or not.

Not knowing what you do as a job or your skill set, I can't help you with the job prospects but you will of course have better luck closer to some of the bigger cities. If you can work remotely you will have a leg up though. As far as working remotely, my experience with cell towers and service has been that Verizon works in most parts of the state with few dead zones. AT&T does not work at all in some parts of the state. I know one of my uncles and aunts lived south of Missoula and the best/only internet service they could get was still dial up, even as recently as a year ago. So you'd want to see what kinds of service you would have available to you for internet service if you were going to be working remotely.

The only thing that I can really say about South Dakota is that I was struck by the signs saying the interstate is closed due to high winds.....when they have dedicated signs and guards for closing down the interstate, they get lots of wind out there.

Good luck with your search...

Dani
 
Right there with you Rob. I too live in NJ. The wife and I just went riding thru SD, WY, MT, and MN about 3 weeks ago. Looking for the same for when I retire. I told her somewhere out there is where I want the EOL( end of life) to be. Just not in NJ. Besides, most roads are 80mph!!!. I believe SD has no personal income tax. Gas was way cheaper out there.
 
Dani I really appreciate your reply.

I have had the same thoughts of you about Montana. Hunting opportunity is almost endless and both the mountains in the West and plains in the East are amazing. I personally have never hunted there, but have friends that do 11 days on mule deer each year, so I am familiar with all of the BLM, State, National and Block programs out there. Additionally, the folks that I have met there have been nothing short of friendly. We are big snowmobilers as well so the large amount of snow, especially near Gallitan and Big Sky surely made us happy, in addition to the farm/ranching community. I know the heat can get pretty killer there too. Through everyone I met out there though, waterfowl seemed to have little interest compared to big game, but I know upland had a big following. Ducks aside, the concern I have with Montana is the sheer cost. It seems most people (myself included) are fairly comfortable with a long work commute to be able to have land and views so it looks that land anywhere within a 2hr radius of Bozeman, Billings, Missoula, Three Forks etc are very very expensive. This of course pushes us further into the middle of nowhere Montana!

I am a construction manager, so unfortunately the closer I am to a city or rural area that has a building boom is where I would need to be. Though as I mentioned, as I am a consultant I have projects on the East and West coast that I will travel for regardless of where I live. Like I said, I would be happy to make a career change if needed, but that is all dependent on the cost of living in the area and what industry is out there.

JMac, then you certainly know some of the headaches we deal with here in NJ relating to cost, traffic, difficulty of hunting without being hassled. Though unfortunately what kills me is access to duck and deer land if very easy through NJ Fish and Wildlife, though private land access is getting harder and harder. We dont get huge flocks of puddle ducks and I dont care much for divers, but the variety of birds we get through our area is incredible.

North Dakota property looks scarce, but I love what the state does for access for hunters with the state PLOT plan and WMAs, but a quick zillow search in a state that large only shows 690 houses/vacant land for sale and they are mostly all small acreage which I found odd. South Dakota I truly love, especially near Spearfish Canyon area which has plentiful work and easy travel, but again I am back to DUCKS that is the major deciding factor for me.
 
Rob,

I have to ask what exit? I moved out of NJ to get away from the taxes to southern Delaware. My brother is near Westfield, NY near Erie, PA. I would ask what type of career you are in. Access to airports and high speed internet would probably be an issue if you are forced to make a career change.

Rick
 
What portions of PA?
I grew up in Wayne County, north of the Poconos. We had great deer and small game hunting. There was goose and some duck hunting to be had but we didn't have the gear back then. And great fishing just about every where you turned, bass, walleye, trout, panfish, etc..

My sister is a retired principal, now in real estate in the Poconos. The real estate market in all of eastern PA within "reasonable" commute from NYC is just simply crazy right now. As soon as a house in the Poconos is listed, they get 10-30 offers, mostly from NY & NJ residents. Turns into a bidding war. Local can't find houses. Same thing happened after 911.

The Allentown/Bethlehem/Reading area might be an option. There is a ton of Corps & game lands down there and lots of small farms. Don't know about ducks but from what I read the goose hunting (greater snows & Canadas) is pretty good down there. Doves too. Not sure about the job market or real estate market. Our company has an office in Wyomissing, if I could talk the wife into it, I'd transfer tomorrow.

I dont know much about western PA.

If you would consider moving south, the cost of living & housing in Alabama is way less than the northeast. I'd go back to coastal Al in a heartbeat, great fishing, lots of public & private land deer and hog hunting, ok to great ducking hunting depending on if we have a real winter or not. Housing & land is still cheap (1400 sqft 3b2b with 2 car garage runs about $160-250K depending on location). But summers can be tough.
Huntsville/TN River Valley area is the other place in Alabama I'd move to if I could. I'll let Eric comment on duck hunting access.
 
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Have you given any thought to North Carolina?


Milder weather but still winter. Hunting is good. Property is not pricey.


JD
 

Have spent time in states you listed.

Lived in PA longtime, now in western NY. Never been to NH.

If you live to be outdoors hunting & fishing, and can cope with winter & isolation.


MONTANA hands down.




my 2 cents
VP
 
Rob,

As several people have mentioned already the real estate market is nuts depending on what part of the country you are looking at. I just read a interesting article about how the real estate market in Montana has taken off and prices are through the roof.
I have spent sometime in Montana ( Livingston area) the winters can be brutal. If it were me Montana or Idaho would get my vote.
 
I love NC and it has lots of good points but public duck hunting is not one. My son has lived in Michigan and central NY. N.C. is not in the same league for public hunting. Finger Lakes region would be wonderful except taxes are crazy.
 
My vote would be Eastern shore of Virginia, or Maryland. I love New Hampshire, but the winters can be brutal. I love New Jersey but I've actually been contemplating the same issues. I can do my job from anywhere
 
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You would find plenty of what you?re looking for along US HWY2 or Interstate 29 in Minnesota or the Dakotas
 
patrick mccarthy said:
Rob here's a nice little place in CNY
https://www.sothebysrealty.com/...ad-savannah-ny-13146
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neighbors to the marsh I hunt - but a little more upscale than our place


as for NJ to NY -

my family moved to NJ when New Amsterdam became NYC (1664) and left NJ for the Finger Lakes when NJ got crowded (1796) [;)]

Landscape wise - the Finger Lakes and WNY are beautiful BUT we are increasingly ruled by NYC

this is not to bring up politics (from the greek work poly meaning many and ticks - blood sucking parasites ) - but it really does continue to get worse- city rent control in little towns, factory style over time pay for farming - the (un)safe act - and on and on

many folks (including my wife and I ) have had the where would you go discussion - i was surprised how many people we know are thinking about it
 
Stay out of MN. If you don't like who is running NJ or NY, you will not like the politicians running this State. Depending upon your income, the State tax rate can be as high as 9.8% and they want to raise it more. The last Governor's platform consisted of him saying I am going to raise taxes on the rich and he got voted in twice. Property taxes are also through the roof and the crime in MPLS is horrendous but underreported by the local media. We are considering getting out of this State once my wife decides to retire it is that bad. And I was born and raised here but it is not the same anymore. They are also one of two or three States that taxes social security so that is a consideration.

We also have family in South Dakota and I just returned from there. It is a State where they let you live your own life and pretty much do what you want as long as you are not harming anyone else. Want to carry a gun in your truck - no problem you just do it. Not required permits, no classes, no expenditure to exercise your 2A rights. Sioux Falls is a rapidly growing area and is a nice sized town. Everything you would need is there.

The western side of SD is beautiful when you get out in the black hills area. Housing is more expensive on that side of the State as it tends to be a more desirable place to live. I know the big game hunting is good out that way but don't know about ducks. ON the eastern side of SD the duck and pheasant hunting is fabulous. And it is right in the migration path, and most land owners have no issue letting you hunt their land. For pheaants, it is harder to get access, for ducks not an issue.

Depending on what kind of land you want to buy, it can be expensive. Back a 3-5 years ago and acre of farmable land would set you back $5-6,000/acre on up. Non farmable land I don't know.

ND is a lot like SD but it is colder and more rural IMO.

If you have questions, let me know.

Mark
 
Richard Lathrop said:
I believe Rick L was making a joke. However a states politics and policies does drive many peoples decisions on where to live.

Rick
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thanks for getting it
 
Oh, I got it, just like your "accurate" criticism of the accuracy and reporting standards of the NYTs. Just an effort to keep your high standards for accurate sourcing and content...
 
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