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NDR- lead free slugs

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NDR- lead free slugs
Wondering if anyone has, or has seen lead free rifled slugs. I keep seeing deer while on the duck boat, and at one of the goose fields. CT required a single projectile for deer, but Feds say no lead during ducks. Was hoping to snag a single box of something like the winchester super x lead free rifles slugs, or some of these tin ones, but nothing ever appears to be in stock. I know I'm looking for a needle in a haystack, but curious what y'all have seen.
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Nick, This may be a moot point. I'm not certain if it is a federal law or varies by state, but I know at least some states (NJ for instance) do not allow waterfowl to be harvested with shot size larger than T. This means that you having slugs along, whether lead or non-toxic, would be in violation.

Shooting both deer and ducks in the same day is something I had wanted to do for a while. Last year I did finally have a "fur and feathers" day, albeit the ducks were with a shotgun and the deer was with a rifle. It may not be possible to do this all in one hunt unfortunately, so morning and evening hunts may be the way to go.
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Depends on your state.
Slugs are not shot.so the fed restrictions dont apply so long as you don't use them for ducks
Most states you could posses slugs as you don't use them to shoot at waterfowl.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
I guess next time I go to the office I'll make a walk over to the game warden colonel's desk. I haven't bothered him about what's legal and what isn't since covid started. I'm sure he'll be looking for the well used bundle of straws from which he draws a subordinates name to answer my questions again.
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
We've been wondering about this since a salt marsh hunt two years ago where we watched a 6 point buck swim across to the island we were sitting on staring at decoys. We were well hidden and upwind that the deer came ashore within 50 yards of us--easy range for a rifled shotgun barrel/slug combo.

Will be interested to hear what the game wardens say about legality of lead slugs in possession. We considered bringing a muzzleloader with a copper sabot on the next hunt, but neither of us wanted to subject ours to salt water.

"At first blush I am tempted to conclude that a satisfactory hobby must be in large degree useless, inefficient, laborious, or irrelevant."
— Aldo Leopold
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Even when lead shot was still legal we could not possess slugs when waterfowl hunting.


Why get a low profile boat and put a high profile blind on it?
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
 
Just saw the Copper Power Belt all copper sabots at a shop. 12 for $65.95. If one shot and one dead deer, not to bad, but I'll wait until it's the law.

If I recall, some states frown upon a single projectile hunting firearm while waterfowling. Also having more than one firearm per hunter.

In today's world, the laws change faster than the printed regs that must be well read. A whole lotta grey area for hunter and officer.











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
 
Saw a full page ad in the NY Outdoor News.

FEDERAL PREMIUM TROPHY COPPER SABOT SLUGS 12ga, & 20ga.

Do not know price, or if they are total copper slugs.











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Sabots require rifled barrels though, correct? Out of a smooth bore I imagine it's like shooting a musket
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
 

Nick,

I have no idea about how they would shoot.

Except for deer hunting in Ohio one year with pumpkinballs (which I still have 5 boxes), that is the only time I've used a shotgun to hunt deer.

Those in the know will give you advice.


As for a musket... A good friend built one, and I sure as hell would not want him shooting at me with it. Never under estimate any firearm well made, and in the right hands.

Ever heard of a Zip Gun? Very crude but effective.


VP











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
I'd happily bring a rifle with me to the goose field since it's not state land, again not sure how wardens would find that. Will find out soon
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Nick Zito wrote:
I'd happily bring a rifle with me to the goose field since it's not state land, again not sure how wardens would find that. Will find out soon




I look forward to what they tell you on the state, and federal level.


Also what are the laws concerning hunter orange while gun deer hunting? Before ya shoot at a deer ya better don all regulated apparel.


Don't know about your state, but PA is very strict about enforcement. Even if yer in a tree house type tree stand, ground blind, etc. Ya better have hunter orange on, and the outside of the stand/blind must have it as well. Folks have found this out the hard way when the warden climbs in to say hello.

NY just mandated hunter orange for gun big game hunting this year (not in the regs book). Have no idea how it will be enforced if the hunter "is out of sight" in a blind, etc.


There is much to consider when a hunter tries to hunt multiple types of game during the same hunt. Not like in the past.

Hopefully you will get the answers to your questions. If they are favorable get it in Writing, as you may need it.



Best regards
Vince











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Interested to see what your state laws are, if I'm reading it right I believe in NC we can have lead buckshot to hunt deer on duck impoundment game lands while duck season is in but as Vince said you have to be wearing orange while deer hunting so you would have to put that on before shooting a deer to be legal. I guess the way here to hunt both is to have non toxic buckshot or slugs, I don't see a shot size restrictions skimming through the pages.

I know if you reload your own ammo you can get non toxic slugs from ballistic products I believe.






Teach someone to love something, and they will protect it. -Will Primos
Benjamin Pendleton
Northeast N.C.
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
 
Ben,

Many years ago. I began carrying one of the very light weight, not expensive, tie in the front hunter orange vests, and a hunter orange mesh type trucker hat. No matter what I was hunting. They are very light, compact and take up little room.

Yup, they be Ugly, mashed up, and natty but keep me within the law when needed. They have come in handy more than once...


VP











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Long story short, you can't hunt deer while hunting waterfowl in CT: No possession of lead or shot larger than BB- removes slugs, even nontoxic- And you can't use a bow because possession of a firearm while archery hunting is prohibited.
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Nick, if I really wanted to hunt deer while waterfowl hunting, I would argue that slugs are not considered "shot".

During general gun season, you can't have a bow and a gun with you? During general gun season here, archery, crossbows, muzzleloaders are all allowed as well as rifles/shotguns. Or do you not have a general gun season?
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
I could likely argue the shot issue but the cost of a lawyer would be beyond the amount that I care to spend, particularly since I don't care much for deer hunting and usually pick them up as roadkill.

We have a general gun season, (11/17-12/7) then a separate one for muzzleloader. However, the law actually states "while archery hunting," so it eliminates the crossover. You can do archery from 9/15-1/31 in my zone, and it overlaps during gun season. However, since it says "while archery hunting" I would be skeptical of the legality of waterfowl hunting and just "happening to have a crossbow with me."
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Dani wrote:
Nick, if I really wanted to hunt deer while waterfowl hunting, I would argue that slugs are not considered "shot".

During general gun season, you can't have a bow and a gun with you? During general gun season here, archery, crossbows, muzzleloaders are all allowed as well as rifles/shotguns. Or do you not have a general gun season?


Dani, both the stipulations are specifically spelled out by CT statute, not some kind of game warden interpretation. Nothing other than notox shot during waterfowl hunting and no firearm when bow hunting.
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Interesting dual hunts topic (deer and ducks)
After R. Ligman posted my archery kill on the 10th of November, I always wanted to get back to a finger of land off a split of streams where I saw a very nice buck while duck hunting a year ago.
Nov. 15 is our statewide rifle/shotgun opener. I've been having some quite painful leg issues of late and thought how better to move around but in my Hoefgen marsh boat! I pushed off the stream bridge entry point at 7 am, with a 20+ minute paddle ahead of me. There were no cars parked anywhere near me so I felt good about the trip.

I packed both my .270 and my 12 gauge picturing a buck in the boat with a nice rack over the Hoefgen bow and some green heads laying over the bucks body. My plan was not to blast at ducks paddling in stealth mode. It was legal shooting time and geese were not pleased with this morning awakening. At least 4-5 groups of 20 or more took off into the wind right over me. I'm sure if I had goose loads with me I could have shot my 3 bird limit, but that was not my intent. I slid into my secret spot and changed out of my waders and walked 100 feet to my spot. Well I hunted til 1pm without seeing a deer. Plenty of sign, but no problem, at this stage of life I enjoy the out-of-doors too much to complain. So on the way out I loaded my Beretta as I heard mallards talking during my morning sit. Well all the ducks were in open water and flushed at 100-200 yards as soon as the saw me approaching. I got back to my entry point without seeing a soul. Now not having been checked by a CO or NPS ranger I'll never have that conversation. But I felt elated my plan worked "almost" to perfection. And as always, a safe return from my adventures is always appreciated by my wife. Being a Monday opener I was surprised how few hunters were out on the park property. Perhaps the deer need more human pressure to seek "our" hiding spot.

Steve

Last edited by:

S Lewis: Nov 17, 2021, 1:20 PM
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
I think you need to make yourself, a cut shell. I've not done it myself but my neighbor has. You basically score a shotgun shell just behind the wad . When fired supposedly the entire front of the shell including the Wad and shot leaves the gun barrel as one unit. I think it would kill a deer under 50 yards. I'm too chicken to try it myself.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I never know which is worse: the sorrow when you hit the bird, or the shame when you miss.
http://www.hillmandecoys.com
Mullica Hill NJ
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
tod osier wrote:
Dani wrote:
Nick, if I really wanted to hunt deer while waterfowl hunting, I would argue that slugs are not considered "shot".

During general gun season, you can't have a bow and a gun with you? During general gun season here, archery, crossbows, muzzleloaders are all allowed as well as rifles/shotguns. Or do you not have a general gun season?



Dani, both the stipulations are specifically spelled out by CT statute, not some kind of game warden interpretation. Nothing other than notox shot during waterfowl hunting and no firearm when bow hunting.


Gotcha. Will have to look it up and see if FL has the same sort of stipulations. There have been a few times I could have shot a deer while duck hunting, I just didn't want to clean them that day.
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
We experimented with this back in high school, 12 & 20 gauge.
Never shot at a deer or even carried them in the woods but at 100', they made a perfectly round hole in a 1/2" sheet of plywood.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
jode hillman wrote:
I think you need to make yourself, a cut shell. I've not done it myself but my neighbor has. You basically score a shotgun shell just behind the wad . When fired supposedly the entire front of the shell including the Wad and shot leaves the gun barrel as one unit. I think it would kill a deer under 50 yards. I'm too chicken to try it myself.



Jode,

Cuts! Oh man it's been a longtime since I've heard/read that term.

Have seen them used in the Atlantic Flyway from Canada, to Core Sound for various nefarious reasons. All prior to steel shot mandate.

Usually fired from a rusty, trusty "boatgun", not a bird shootin' shotgun. After which the bore was checked before the next round was launched.


It may do the job under 50 yards but it could be ugly, mabbe on both ends. Shocked

Like you, I never ever thought of using em. Not so much chicken Wink, but rational thinking I do believe.


VP











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
Carl wrote:
We experimented with this back in high school, 12 & 20 gauge.

Never shot at a deer or even carried them in the woods but at 100', they made a perfectly round hole in a 1/2" sheet of plywood.



This is understandable in high school. As an adult, not so much. Good way to have a potentially big problem.
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Re: NDR- lead free slugs In reply to
greg setter wrote:
Carl wrote:
We experimented with this back in high school, 12 & 20 gauge.

Never shot at a deer or even carried them in the woods but at 100', they made a perfectly round hole in a 1/2" sheet of plywood.




This is understandable in high school. As an adult, not so much. Good way to have a potentially big problem.


Exactly, would not even think about it now that I have a little more sense!


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "