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Gifting game

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Gifting game
I've been trying to find out the proper way to gift game. It appears for most states and the US Fish and Game that processed waterfowl are still part of your possession limit until consumed. So consumption and gifting are your two methods for reducing your possession limit. I found a nice guideline from NDF&G but my question is: Does the gifted need to sign the tag or is simply his or her information enough? I don't see anything specific about a signature, but this seems like another gray area. My past experience leads me to believe that I will have the gifted sign. I read an interesting account from a hunter who was cited for excessive possession because of the sausage he had in the freezer along with his 3 daily bag limits of ducks. I gave him credit for asking the officer at what point during the act of consumption does it reduce your possession limitCool
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
I'm always morbidly fascinated by these questions. Below is the federal reg, state regs may be different.


? 20.40 Gift of migratory game birds.
No person may receive, possess, or give to another, any freshly killed migratory game birds as a gift, except at the personal abodes of the donor or donee, unless such birds have a tag attached, signed by the hunter who took the birds, stating such hunter's address, the total number and species of birds and the date such birds were taken.
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Yeah, its not really a fed reg issue, once processed at your personal abode or tagged & gifted, its not longer part of your possession limit.

So it comes down to your state regs.
Back in Alabama, once processed & in the freezer at you home, fish & game was no longer part of your possession limit.
Same here in FL (I believe).

IMO, some states go way overboard on this possession limit thing and consider processed fish & game at your home still part of your possession limit.
I've never understood this.
The whole point of possession limit was related to "field possession" of over the daily limit while at a camp, away from your home, etc.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
? 20.39 Termination of possession.
Subject to all other requirements of this part, the possession of birds taken by any hunter shall be deemed to have ceased when such birds have been delivered by him to another person as a gift; or have been delivered by him to a post office, a common carrier, or a migratory bird preservation facility and consigned for transport by the Postal Service or a common carrier to some person other than the hunter.
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Tod,

Thank you so much. I've been trying to find what you sent but the fed site won't come up today. Appreciate you taking time to respond.

I did run across this posted from the US Fish and Game that states processed game does count towards your possession limit. It seems some states have different rules, but does Federal supersede state regs for migratory birds as stated?




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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Wow, I have seen just the opposite as far as feds go.
Once again, IMO, this does not make sense to me.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
rfberan wrote:


I did run across this posted from the US Fish and Game that states processed game does count towards your possession limit. It seems some states have different rules, but does Federal supersede state regs for migratory birds as stated?



I remember reading that exchange you posted in the past when searching something similar. I believe that is what the that agent from the USFWS thinks, but I don't know if I agree that is what the law says. I try to follow every law 100%, but some of them are tough to be sure you are in compliance given how they are written. Add to it state and federal compliance and it is tougher to figure out where you stand. Putting birds in the mail ends your possession per regulation, can you send them to your neighbor and have them not count in your freezer?


Here is one source for the federal waterfowl regs:
https://www.ecfr.gov/...pter-B/part-20?toc=1

Last edited by:

tod osier: Oct 8, 2021, 8:02 AM
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
According to what it says it would seem that sending takes them off your possession limit as long as tagged and gifted properly?
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
That is how I read it.
Its about the only thing crystal clear about when possession is terminated.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Thanks again for helping me on this. I just finished a book Backcountry Law by a retired Florida wildlife officer. It comes across to me that he was all about notches in his belt. Not all are like that but the ones that are, really can complicate trying to be a law abiding hunter. There are premeditated and habitual violators, and then there are unintended mistakes. Some officers don't acknowledge the difference. Thank you to the ones that do.
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
The mail part is pretty vague. I guess if you got in a bind you could just mail/gift them to anyone! Spend a month in Canada and just start shipping them to random people you find on the internet, LOL.
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
I think it depends entirely on the state the you are hunting/living in. This is directly from the Migratory Bird Hunting Regulations in Montana (which I consider has a very strict possession limit law):

Possession Limit ? The number of birds that may be possessed at any time in any form: fresh, stored in freezers or lockers, salted, smoked, dried, canned, or preserved.
Possession Limit while in the Field ? No person shall possess more than one daily bag limit while in the field, or while returning from the field to one?s vehicle, hunting camp, home, etc

Gifting birds, I would think you need to follow the states' rules that you are gifting to/from. I always put all my info plus the signature...more is better if you are worried about following the letter of the law.

I think the Federal gov't considers migratory birds no longer in possession once they are processed. I think more strict rules by the states will supersede Federal rules.

Does sausage count as "preserved"? Possibly. It would depend upon the game warden that is checking you I think. One game warden I ran across said that leftovers from meals from birds you have cooked count towards your possession limit. My question to him on that was well....neither the wing or foot is attached so how do you tell what is what and keep you from getting into trouble? Or in sausage or if the birds have been canned? Never got a good answer on that.
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Some of these guys like to make the rules up as they go, and why on earth would you let one into your house to inspect your freezer without a search warrant??
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
gcs wrote:
Some of these guys like to make the rules up as they go, and why on earth would you let one into your house to inspect your freezer without a search warrant??


What he said
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Carl~


Yes - the intent of this regulation has been lost over time. I do not know the actual history, but I suspect it was implemented before everyone had a home freezer. How is waterfowl conservation weakened if I have 4 daily bag limits waiting for special meals with friends?



As a career public servant in natural resource conservation, I am a staunch believer in the need for "boundaries" - be they statute or regulation. BUT - in my experience - the reckless interpretation/implementation of any regulation does more harm than good. The regulated community needs to respect the regulations. It is the obligation of government to wield its delegated powers with thoughtfulness and judgment.


Now I'll clamber down off the soapbox....


All the best,


SJS

Steven Jay Sanford
Pencil Brook Farm
South Cambridge, NY
http://www.stevenjaysanford.com


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Re: Gifting game In reply to
 
From personal experience of my hunting partners, while I was present. I can tell you that processed waterfowl IS counted, and will get you in a world of trouble.

Especially when trying to re enter the USA from Canada. Also if it is in your possession at home. There seems to be NO time limit on that.


Having waterfowl hunted in many states, and Canadian Provinces. All wildlife officers when we inquired stated "Give no waterfowl away."

Tagged, or untagged, it is the best advice to follow.

Heeding that advice is up to the individual...


VP











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Vince -

Coming into the US from Canada is a different reg that was broken - it wasn't a possession reg. You are not allowed to bring processed meat into the US from Canada. I believe this is the case Vince but not entirely certain.

And this whole thing on possession is very very stupid. The way some are explaining it, if I have ducks made into meat sticks by mixing with pork, spices and then smoked, how can this be a daily limit question, or a possession limit. How would anyone know what kinds of ducks were in the bag, how many ducks were used to make the meat sticks, when they were made and so on and so on. I have a friend who just took in 9 lbs of duck meat and made it into 24 lbs of meat sticks. How many ducks were used to make them? How would they know thee meat sticks were made from duck? This friend I know had the packages labelled as venison sticks. Without doing a DNA test, how would they know?

And then there are more questions. If they are in the freezer and in your possession, do they still have to have a wing and head attached? Do they have to be tagged as once you leave your house they are no longer in your possession (some States say they have to be physically in your possession the whole time. How do they know what ducks were used?

Can I mail them to myself at a different address, say a cabin?

What happens if I shoot the ducks in different States with different possession limits. Which one applies?

One person above posted a law that said the duck is in your possession until it is consumed and the unused pasts discarded. What happens if you mount the unused parts? IS that duck still in your possession?

These are stupid dumbass rules that should be updated by folks with common sense. The possession limit was intended to keep people from shooting a ton of ducks over two days or so. If daily limits and possession limits are both designed to do the same thing (keep the number of ducks you can have home at one time), why not just change the law to a total possession law and get rid of the daily limits?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.......

Mark
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
 
Mark,

It has been some years since that happened but it was a possession reg, not a processed meat reg. Beef, deer, elk, moose, processed meat ALL marked as such, and with proper tags were OK.

Waterfowl a federal reg that includes Canada and Mexico is totally in a class by itself.

And YES they will do DNA tests if they want, and the case calls for it. We were given the entire rundown of what is possible.

If that has changed since that transpired I do not know.

Labeling the waterfowl as other meat will not help the matter. Especially if discovered by officers, cuz they have seen it all.


"In the United States of America, ducks are the most protected and overly regulated entity in history." - Phil Robertson

Like him or not, that is pretty much it.


Until the regs are upgraded, they will only deter new and some old time waterfowl hunters. First of all outlaw/poachers do not give a damn about regs! They only apply to those who comply as best possible.

We are living in changing times. Hopefully somewhere along the line better waterfowl regs will be put in place.


VP











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Hey Vince -

I hear what you are saying I do. These are stupid laws and if challenged by someone who has the time and money would be shown just how stupid they are.

Using my example of meat sticks. Suppose for some reason an agent was checking my freezer (yeah, it was me who made the meat sticks) and asked about the packagers of frozen, processed sticks in my freezer. How is he going to prove:

1. How many ducks were used to make the meat sticks? Sure there may be DNA. But it won?t tell anyone how much duck dna and how much pot dna are in the sample
2. How will he know what kind of ducks were used to make the meat sticks? And how will he k ow which ducks were taken on which days?
3. How can he assume I shot all those ducks assuming he can tell me his many ducks were used to make the meat sticks. Maybe some buddies contributed their ducks and o meet a processing centers minimum amount of required meat to make a batch.
4. Can I give away the processed meat sticks for o for rinds and family without tagging them? How would I tag them? I would have no idea what duck shot on which day went into any particular individual meat stick.

There are many more questions. Dumb rules, unenforceable rules, and confusing rules do nothing to increase the enjoyment of waterfowl of and does quite a bit to keep new hunters away. Not what we need.

Mark.
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Tagging is usually where folks seem to get in trouble with the lawman. Here is the law regarding termination of possession and gifting. If a game warden or federal agent is wanting to get a warrant to go through a person's personal freezer at home, they would have had to do something seriously wrong to warrant that search.

? 20.39 Termination of possession.
Subject to all other requirements of this part, the possession of birds taken by any hunter shall be deemed to have ceased when such birds have been delivered by him to another person as a gift; or have been delivered by him to a post office, a common carrier, or a migratory bird preservation facility and consigned for transport by the Postal Service or a common carrier to some person other than the hunter.


? 20.40 Gift of migratory game birds.
No person may receive, possess, or give to another, any freshly killed migratory game birds as a gift, except at the personal abodes of the donor or donee, unless such birds have a tag attached, signed by the hunter who took the birds, stating such hunter's address, the total number and species of birds and the date such birds were taken.
Quote Reply
Re: Gifting game In reply to
rfberan wrote:
I've been trying to find out the proper way to gift game. It appears for most states and the US Fish and Game that processed waterfowl are still part of your possession limit until consumed. So consumption and gifting are your two methods for reducing your possession limit. I found a nice guideline from NDF&G but my question is: Does the gifted need to sign the tag or is simply his or her information enough? I don't see anything specific about a signature, but this seems like another gray area. My past experience leads me to believe that I will have the gifted sign. I read an interesting account from a hunter who was cited for excessive possession because of the sausage he had in the freezer along with his 3 daily bag limits of ducks. I gave him credit for asking the officer at what point during the act of consumption does it reduce your possession limitCool


So once I gift them to a buddy the possession limit goes away. How about his possession limit. After I gift them to him, can he gift them back to me? Does this make negative possion on my end of things?

Find rules. Totally unenforceable.

Mark
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
gcs,

My understanding is that wildlife officers don't need a search warrant. If they simply suspect any misdoings they have authority to search where ever. Outside or in.

Just thought you would enjoy that nuance.
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
rfberan wrote:
gcs,


My understanding is that wildlife officers don't need a search warrant. If they simply suspect any misdoings they have authority to search where ever. Outside or in.

Just thought you would enjoy that nuance.



Not generally true, but there are some circumstances where they may search without a warrant when police could not. This link is the USFW guidance for their officers, there's certainly room to interpret the restrictions on searches.


https://www.fws.gov/...45fw1.html#section17

Most states also have guidance for their wardens. What I have read regarding warrantless searches usually pertains to vehicles, trailers and hunting camps, not permanent residences.
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
 
Over many years, many waterfowl hunts, in many different places. The freezers & frigs have been searched & checked by state, federal, and provincial wildlife officers. So far, so good...

No search warrant needed. Were the birds ARE, alive and dead is where they can, and will go. That is part of their job, and one that does need to be done. This applies to your vehicle as well. If your not prepared for that, then it is on you.

If your somewhere that the hunting is good, expect it.

Some state wildlife agencies have had to change some search policies, due to court actions. When you get into federal, provincial ,and officers being police not just wildlife officers, things can change.

Bottom line is. If folks are doing what they should not be doing, there are ways to try to prevent it.



my 2 cents











"Art does not reproduce what is visible - but makes things visible." ~ Paul Klee, artist, 1920
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Re: Gifting game In reply to
Vince Pagliaroli wrote:

Over many years, many waterfowl hunts, in many different places. The freezers & frigs have been searched & checked by state, federal, and provincial wildlife officers. So far, so good...

No search warrant needed. Were the birds ARE, alive and dead is where they can, and will go. That is part of their job, and one that does need to be done. This applies to your vehicle as well. If your not prepared for that, then it is on you.

If your somewhere that the hunting is good, expect it.

Some state wildlife agencies have had to change some search policies, due to court actions. When you get into federal, provincial ,and officers being police not just wildlife officers, things can change.

Bottom line is. If folks are doing what they should not be doing, there are ways to try to prevent it.



my 2 cents


Brake the law to enforce the law.