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Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely

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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
I used #6 steel dove loads for cripple swatters with great results.


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
I'll agree with Jay and say that the bismuth is nice, except the pellets shatter inside the birds when they hit bone. That being said, I bought a "case" of 200 boss shells (2-3/4" 3/5 combo). Paid more than I'm used to for shells, though they are "reasonable" in this day and age. I'd say I'm crippling significantly less ducks in the first shot, and the follow up shots with the same shells drop them quick. I was hesitant on the 2-3/4", I actually ordered them by accident, but I've been dropping even the tough little old squaw at 40-50 yards with single shots with the boss shells. Never could do that with steel.
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
I switched to the copper plated bismuth last season, shooting exclusively 20 gauge #4s and I found that I cripple far less birds than with steel. Is it worth the massive upcharge? I'll leave that up to the end user.

I'll have to pay closer attention to the bismuth shattering on bone contact, I haven't noticed that myself.
________
Coastal NJ
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
I've found pieces of the bismuth in random chunks. Like if you smashed the shot with a hammer. I assume it's from contact with bone, but maybe breaking apart in the barrel too. Outside of my realm
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
Nick Zito wrote:
I've found pieces of the bismuth in random chunks. Like if you smashed the shot with a hammer. I assume it's from contact with bone, but maybe breaking apart in the barrel too. Outside of my realm


It may well break up on impacting bone, but I haven't looked close enough in a dead bird to be sure. It definitely breaks up some leaving the barrel, I've seen it on pattern paper and in the water when shooting at birds down low. If you watch for it you'll see what looks like dust hitting the water, or spatter/tiny holes on the paper.

The tendency to shatter was one of the reasons Bismuth didn't take off in the mid-90's, supposedly the current alloy is somewhat malleable. The Boss shot will shatter if you hit it with a hammer, but not as easily as I recall the early Bismuth shot doing.

I'm trying the Boss shells a little this year, so far I give it an OK. Had good luck with 28 gauge #7 on grouse. Haven't shot enough ducks with the 12 gauge 3", #4's yet to be sure either way.

For me the best ever shot was the discontinued Remington HD, followed by Hevi-Shot which is now my go-to. The two closely related Tungsten based shot types are IMO better than lead ever was and I wouldn't switch back to lead if it became legal. Very few cripples to deal with, W alloys are dense enough to penetrate heavy feathers on the body and kill the birds with body shots. Agreed, however, that one pellet of any kind in the head is worth several in the body.
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
A bunch of sick bastards...lol. this post brought back memories. I was hunting brant with a childhood friend, (we grew up together since 5 years old). when one came in and he shot it. So we retrieved the Brant and it was still alive, so I did the, hold the head swing the body ring the neck. Any way the head popped off in my hand, Being humane I said to my friend look at this. He became ill, unloaded his gun and wanted to go home, so we did, he never hunted again. I was 17 at the time, and now Im 67 and I can remember it like yesterday.
"When those birds stool".....takem!
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
John Van Houten wrote:
A bunch of sick bastards...lol. this post brought back memories. I was hunting brant with a childhood friend, (we grew up together since 5 years old). when one came in and he shot it. So we retrieved the Brant and it was still alive, so I did the, hold the head swing the body ring the neck. Any way the head popped off in my hand, Being humane I said to my friend look at this. He became ill, unloaded his gun and wanted to go home, so we did, he never hunted again. I was 17 at the time, and now Im 67 and I can remember it like yesterday.


That will always happen sooner or later with the windmill method, haha! One of the first times I took my daughters duck hunting (they were about 7 and 9 at the time) I did that and accidently popped off a gadwall's head right in front of them, they weren't too badly shocked but they will still bring it up years later. Making memories I suppose.....




------------------------------------------------
"We base our hopes upon a willingness to go to difficult-to-get-at places, to work hard, to freeze if need be, to rise early and stay late." -Gordon MacQuarrie

Avery- the K-mart of waterfowling gear
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
SJ Fairbank wrote:
Nick Zito wrote:
I've found pieces of the bismuth in random chunks. Like if you smashed the shot with a hammer. I assume it's from contact with bone, but maybe breaking apart in the barrel too. Outside of my realm



It may well break up on impacting bone, but I haven't looked close enough in a dead bird to be sure. It definitely breaks up some leaving the barrel, I've seen it on pattern paper and in the water when shooting at birds down low. If you watch for it you'll see what looks like dust hitting the water, or spatter/tiny holes on the paper.

The tendency to shatter was one of the reasons Bismuth didn't take off in the mid-90's, supposedly the current alloy is somewhat malleable. The Boss shot will shatter if you hit it with a hammer, but not as easily as I recall the early Bismuth shot doing.

I'm trying the Boss shells a little this year, so far I give it an OK. Had good luck with 28 gauge #7 on grouse. Haven't shot enough ducks with the 12 gauge 3", #4's yet to be sure either way.

For me the best ever shot was the discontinued Remington HD, followed by Hevi-Shot which is now my go-to. The two closely related Tungsten based shot types are IMO better than lead ever was and I wouldn't switch back to lead if it became legal. Very few cripples to deal with, W alloys are dense enough to penetrate heavy feathers on the body and kill the birds with body shots. Agreed, however, that one pellet of any kind in the head is worth several in the body.


I think the seemingly more cost effectiveness of a lot of this shot will lead to steel being obsolete or just really unpopular. I wasn't a believer until I absolutely stoned-dead a black duck that was decoying on the far end of our spread. As anyone knows who hunts black ducks, they tend to do that. We walked it out to get the bird and it was 40 yds if not more. #5 bismuth, 3", from a 12ga with an IM choke. Keep in mind, #5 was the shot size. That lethality at that distance with that shot size is just impressive. I originally started with #3 bismuth and the damage was just too much on ducks inside 40 yds. I now keep them for geese like snows and canadas.

Tungsten and bismuth will eventually replace the majority of steel shot being sold. Steel just stinks. It's too fast, beats the daylights out of thin wall choke systems like Beretta, and doesn't kill birds.
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to

Quote
I think the seemingly more cost effectiveness of a lot of this shot will lead to steel being obsolete or just really unpopular. I wasn't a believer until I absolutely stoned-dead a black duck that was decoying on the far end of our spread. As anyone knows who hunts black ducks, they tend to do that. We walked it out to get the bird and it was 40 yds if not more. #5 bismuth, 3", from a 12ga with an IM choke. Keep in mind, #5 was the shot size. That lethality at that distance with that shot size is just impressive. I originally started with #3 bismuth and the damage was just too much on ducks inside 40 yds. I now keep them for geese like snows and canadas.
Tungsten and bismuth will eventually replace the majority of steel shot being sold. Steel just stinks. It's too fast, beats the daylights out of thin wall choke systems like Beretta, and doesn't kill birds.


I agree, the sooner hunters move away from steel the better, the cripple losses shouldn't be tolerated. Unfortunately, no shot type can make up for poor shooting, a little off season practice wouldn't hurt many weekend warriors either.
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
Dani wrote:
tod osier wrote:
For me it just seems to take too long and there is always something to do right then (manage dog, get boat situated, etc...) when I can't be sitting there dealing with snuffing out the bird. Standard technique tho and not bloody and there definitely are bashed brain birds that refuse to shut down.

Thoracic compression.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326487824_Rapid_cardiac_compression_An_effective_method_of_avian_euthanasia



Tod, I got to where I've learned to hold onto the bird for the most part and handle the dog or do whatever I need to. However, I know that I am in the south where water is warmer, the boats I use smaller in protected waters and generally the birds I see are smaller so my little hands can deal with them for the most part while doing what I need to.

Finally got the Finisher video to play for me.....that's essentially what we do with Alligators once we have them on the edge of the boat. Use a knife or chisel and sever the spinal column and then a coat hanger right through the brain stem hole in the skull. No gator is allowed on the boat until both of those things are done.



You had it right.. then you kept typing... NO GATOR IS ALLOWED IN THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!! no need to go on

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***Phil (Chesapeake Boy) Nowack***

http://www.mapleridgetaxidermy.com
http://www.philnowackphotography.com

Nothing like the north wind pushing snow at your back, a bird in your hand, and chessie with ice on his coat at your side.

Birds brought to you courtesy of Nikon, Benelli, Kodi, and Otter
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
Jay K wrote:
Capt Rich Geminski wrote:
Try shooting them in the peeper, not the pooper.



I thought I was the only one in this thread who "just shoots them again...but in the head." lol

I shoot bismuth, no more steel. Yesterday, buddy and I shot two brant. Mine, dead on impact. His took another 2 shoots with steel (which is what he was shooting). For the extra $40 a case I have no desire to chase cripples.


Yep.. I normally shoot #6 Tungsten ( HW13).. or #5 bismuth. I have more clean kills... and fewer shots. Actually doesn't doesn't cost more in the end.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
***Phil (Chesapeake Boy) Nowack***

http://www.mapleridgetaxidermy.com
http://www.philnowackphotography.com

Nothing like the north wind pushing snow at your back, a bird in your hand, and chessie with ice on his coat at your side.

Birds brought to you courtesy of Nikon, Benelli, Kodi, and Otter
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
Jeff- a cheap pair of pliers, right behind the eyes, crush the skull. This works well and you don't have to bite it.


As far as shot. I agree with using the best you can afford. I'm old enough to have gone from lead to steel everywhere(now non-toxic). I have always watched birds fly away with feathers coming out with steel, very rare with the better non-toxic. I believe that every duck that flies off after getting hit dies from it, at least most of them do. I've used much of the available non-toxic over the last 20-25 years that is available retail. Remington Wingmaster HD was the best-6's were good for everything including geese, followed by Winchester Extended Range HD, Kent Tungsten Matrix further behind, and then the bismuth loads. I used the Rio bismuth for a couple of years and thought that was as good as any bismuth load I had used. I won't say I never lose a duck shooting this stuff because I do, but that is usually due to it falling in a place I never should have shot it with or without dog.

If you are shooting ducks close in, say 10-20 yards average, they are trying to land, steel is fine, kills great. Just don't get a ton of that in the Del Bay marsh except GWT. Black ducks, 25-40 is more common(by the time you get your gun up). That has as much to do with the terrain and the tides as anything. The water level is going to change if you hunt for more than two hours, and you have to take what you get on the day you're going, and work around the water levels, which means hunting where you can. Which isn't always where the ducks really want to be.

This year, you got what you could find. I bought some new Federal stuff with a blend of steel and tungsten. I've taken one shot, killed a teal, so I have no idea how good it is. But hopefully will find out in the next few weeks!
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
I've had two scotch doubles this week shooting #4 bismuth out of my 20 gauge so that's at least one way to make it more efficient!

Also folded a snow goose at 45 yards with the 20 the other day too, the boss stuff continues to impress me.
________
Coastal NJ
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to

Quote
You had it right.. then you kept typing... NO GATOR IS ALLOWED IN THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!! no need to go on


Chicken......skeered of a dead, brain scrambled gator Wink
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
Dani wrote:

Quote

You had it right.. then you kept typing... NO GATOR IS ALLOWED IN THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!! no need to go on



Chicken......skeered of a dead, brain scrambled gator Wink


NOT Skeered of one that just came off the grill or out of the deep fat fryer!

---------------------------------------------------------------------
***Phil (Chesapeake Boy) Nowack***

http://www.mapleridgetaxidermy.com
http://www.philnowackphotography.com

Nothing like the north wind pushing snow at your back, a bird in your hand, and chessie with ice on his coat at your side.

Birds brought to you courtesy of Nikon, Benelli, Kodi, and Otter
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
I've use a Bird Necker Tool for the past 10 years, they are available from Lion Country Supply.
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
Agreed. I scotch doubled two green heads while walking the marshes of Maine this weekend. I was u loaded, near the road heading back to the truck. Two green heads flew out of a 1' wide draw and flew off. I was able to load and shoot and hit both with a single shell of BOSS #5 bismuth at about 40-45 yards and take them both down. I didn't even know I hit the second, too focused on the first, but my partner saw the second drop as well. I'm a believer in the bismuth now
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
Hunted yesterday with bismuth shot (for the first time). When I was cleaning the birds we harvested I noticed a small piece of shot in one of them (much smaller than the intact pellets I found). So it did appear to break apart.
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
What a pither!





Don't just do something, Stand there!
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Re: Killing Cripples Quickly and Humanely In reply to
I forgot to post these of broken shot