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22 caliber dummy launchers

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22 caliber dummy launchers
And NO, I don't plan on launching myself thru the air anytime soon. If I did, it would take at least a 12 gage, possibly 10 gage. w00t

I need to replace my 22 cal blank powered dummy launcher. I have been using the Yellow loads and the extractor is worn out. I see that Retiv-R-Trainer has a "new improved" extractor on their current model, but I am unable to find a suppler that has the current model.




This a stock image of the current extractor. Mine has become distorted out of shape due to the chamber pressures. Thus the fired case jams and is extremely difficult to remove even after the extractor has lifted the casing.



Anyone have a recommendation for a 22 cal. blank powered dummy launcher that has a stock extension for bracing against one's thigh?

Or a source for this one? I can create my own stock extension with some pvc fittings.
Retriev-R-Trainer Dummy Launcher (only). $84.99. (gundogsupply.com)




Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Mine model is like yours - the old one. I can say that mine has gotten more finicky over the years. I haven't fed it a diet of too many hot loads, either.

No help on a new one, I'm still in the stone age like you.
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Mine must be even older, it just came with a little crowbar tool to do it. May sound like common sense for this board but I found a good cleaning / scrubbing with my .22 brass cleaning brush helped a lot with them not getting as stuck
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
ScottCK wrote:
Mine must be even older, it just came with a little crowbar tool to do it. May sound like common sense for this board but I found a good cleaning / scrubbing with my .22 brass cleaning brush helped a lot with them not getting as stuck


Thanks for the tip but yes, already been down that road. The extractor forms part of the chamber, when the case expands it gets "form fired" against the deformed extractor. This forms a ridge on the case which is locked in under the bottom edge of the extractor.

crude drawing




Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Dave,

When I was running my dogs in HRC trials, one of the guys I used to train with ( at the time he worked part-time in a gun shop just north of Dayton) had a machinist friend who converted this old double action, H&R 929 .22 LR pistol frame (9 shot cylinder) into a dummy-launcher for him. When he sold it to me, I added the oversized grips to better control & dampen recoil.

It takes the standard launcher dummies and is able to launch them as quickly as I can slip them onto the tube and pull the trigger. Throws the standard padded dummys as well as the long range, hard, oval bumpers. Empty cases are easy to clear out of the swing-out cylider using the plunger mechanism standard to the pistol.

I'm thinking someone with your skills could probably fabricate the launcher head and thread it onto a similar pistol barrel.


























MLBob

"Art is like an ill-trained Labrador retriever that drags you out into traffic." (Annie Dillard)

....Here's to Joe Wooster, who made me realize that the useful could and should be beautiful; and who firmly believed that decoy carvers were the last free men in America.

https://www.facebook.com/KOOIdecoy?ref=hl

Last edited by:

MLBob Furia: Feb 9, 2022, 3:27 PM
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Bob,

It is something to consider. Right now, I get away with doing some training at the local county park where firearms are not permitted. The less "gun looking" tool I can use, the better.

I do have an old concrete nail gun I have briefly thought about converting. Haven't really studied it yet.






Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Dave by chance have you been using the yellow nail gun loads thru your launcher instead of the standard yellow launcher load. I remember reading years ago when I bought my launcher that they advised against using the nail gun loads as they could damage gun. Could be why it stretched extractor?
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Mine is the same, but being simple and cheap I just use needle nose pliers to extract the spent shell. It appears to me that the issue is more tight chamber than extractor related.
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
roy brewington wrote:
Dave by chance have you been using the yellow nail gun loads thru your launcher instead of the standard yellow launcher load. I remember reading years ago when I bought my launcher that they advised against using the nail gun loads as they could damage gun. Could be why it stretched extractor?



"standard yellow launcher load"? I think the confusion may be from the failure to take into account the color of the case itself. As you can see a nickel casing with a yellow color code is much more powerful than a brass casing with the same yellow color code. The actual power level numbers are less confusing than the color code which does repeat colors. The power level numbers will be shown on the boxes, regardless of who or what market they are intended for. (launcher users or construction users)

Numbers codes start with the brass casings with Gray #1; Brown #2; Green #3; Yellow #4; Red #5; Purple #6; Then continue to the NICKLE casings with Gray #7; Brown #8; Yellow #9; and so on.

YES, it would be FOOLISH to use a "nickel casing color code yellow #9" instead of the intended load of a "brass casing color code yellow #4". To confuse any of the nickel cased loads, with a brass cased load, would not give the desired results.




Typical Product Description

This listing features one box pack of 100 Yellow single shot loads, it will be a great helpful tool to train dogs: Power load of 100 Count. These loads provides enough power to penetrate straight wall, concrete and hallow block or /compatible with Dog Training Dummy Launcher/Retriev-R-Trainer, DT System(High Range 175 Feet).
Use compatible with DT Systems Super-Pro Launcher, DT Super-Pro Remote Launchers,Retriev-R-Trainer, RRT Versa-Launch, and Lucky launcher II fog dog training.
Help to provide the power to penetrate hollow block and concrete
Color: Yellow loads


on the other hand, Yes there is contradictory information also circulating.


POWER LOADS FOR RETRIEVER LAUNCHERS (retrieverworld.com)

This link shows their red color as a power level of #3 Yellow as a #2 and Green as a #1 which is confusing if a person only looks at the color coding.
200 RRT Dummy Launcher Heavy Red Crimped Blank Loads (2 boxes). $21.98. (gundogsupply.com)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My conclusion is; Powerloads of levels #1; #2; and #3 are deemed acceptable for use in dummy launchers. Power level #4 is marginally magnum depending on which launcher and who you ask. Powerloads #5 or above are "use at your own risk".

I have fired several brass case Purple loads power #6 thru nail guns and it is a potent load. It is probably a good thing that one will not find the nickel casings in the homeowner market.

Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging

Last edited by:

Huntindave McCann: Feb 10, 2022, 3:46 AM
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Brad Bortner wrote:
Mine is the same, but being simple and cheap I just use needle nose pliers to extract the spent shell. It appears to me that the issue is more tight chamber than extractor related.


Brad,

The issue has been getting worse just the last couple years in the thirty years I have owned this tool. I can visibly see where the twin pins which the extractor rides on, are bent outward. I suspect it is simply metal fatigue over time and use. And yes, I have on occasion used red loads #5, but they result in a noted increase of recoil.

Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Brad Bortner wrote:
Mine is the same, but being simple and cheap I just use needle nose pliers to extract the spent shell. It appears to me that the issue is more tight chamber than extractor related.


Yup, same observation and the same fix. I have tried two different load manufacturers and four different load color codes to achieve the same results; the rounds expand in the chamber and won't eject. Actually, this enables me to not end-up searching the ground for spent rounds to clean up after a session.
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Lot of us using them. I felt like they were out of vogue amongst those in the know - I don't see them mentioned much, but I've always felt like it was a great tool. Damn dogs love them.
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
RLLigman wrote:
Brad Bortner wrote:
Mine is the same, but being simple and cheap I just use needle nose pliers to extract the spent shell. It appears to me that the issue is more tight chamber than extractor related.



Yup, same observation and the same fix. I have tried two different load manufacturers and four different load color codes to achieve the same results; the rounds expand in the chamber and won't eject. Actually, this enables me to not end-up searching the ground for spent rounds to clean up after a session.


That is the difference between an "extractor" or an "ejector". An "extractor" lifts the casing a given distance from the chamber. One then usually grabs the casing with his fingers to fully remove the casing. Much as in the same manner as most firearms used for trap shooting. Guys shooting pumps or semiautos, end up with hulls on the ground because their firearms have ejectors.

An ejector removes the casing entirely from the chamber and flings it away. I've never seen an ejector on a dummy launcher. There may be one out there with an ejector, but I've not come across it.

Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Huntindave McCann wrote:

An ejector removes the casing entirely from the chamber and flings it away. I've never seen an ejector on a dummy launcher. There may be one out there with an ejector, but I've not come across it.


Mine used to eject quite stylishly if I snapped it open after firing. Not so much anymore.
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
tod osier wrote:
Huntindave McCann wrote:


An ejector removes the casing entirely from the chamber and flings it away. I've never seen an ejector on a dummy launcher. There may be one out there with an ejector, but I've not come across it.



Mine used to eject quite stylishly if I snapped it open after firing. Not so much anymore.



Ejectors can be had on over/unders as well. They don't release until the firearm is almost fully opened. Whereas an extractor rises as the action is opened.

It is about time for me to go feed my dog. Ususally evening feedings find her sitting on my lap just prior to feeding. When I mention "Is it time to eat?" one would absolutely conclude that my easy chair was fitted with a dog ejector. She hits the floor bouncing in circles. Sly

Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging

Last edited by:

Huntindave McCann: Feb 10, 2022, 4:48 AM
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
A machinist could probably make the part needed.

Rick

Last edited by:

Richard Lathrop: Feb 10, 2022, 5:20 AM
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Huntindave McCann wrote:
That is the difference between an "extractor" or an "ejector". An "extractor" lifts the casing a given distance from the chamber. One then usually grabs the casing with his fingers to fully remove the casing. Much as in the same manner as most firearms used for trap shooting. Guys shooting pumps or semiautos, end up with hulls on the ground because their firearms have ejectors.

An ejector removes the casing entirely from the chamber and flings it away. I've never seen an ejector on a dummy launcher. There may be one out there with an ejector, but I've not come across it.


Not to get nitpicky here Dave....actually I will be nitpicky here Sly ...but folk shooting pumps or semiautos end up with hulls on the ground because their guns have extractors AND ejectors. The extractor is the thing that hooks around the rim of the shotshell....often in pump shotguns there are two extractors (those hooks on either side of the bolt?)....and its/their job is to pull that shotshell out of the chamber when the bolt comes back when the action is cycled (through firing or just cycling shotshells in and out of the gun). The ejector is what is responsible for getting that shotshell out of the gun (so you don't have to pull it out by hand like in your dummy launcher). Sometimes the ejectors are fixed in the gun and sometimes they are spring loaded and will only push the shotshell out of the gun when the shotshell has cleared the chamber. But pumps and semiautos have both extractor and ejector.

I'd agree that your dummy launcher has an extractor....can you buy just a new extractor? Are there parts available like you can buy gun parts?

There is a reason for that tight chamber. What is happening during firing (firearms or dummy launchers) is that on firing, the spark created from the primer burns the propellant, creating a great deal of gas in a very short amount of time. When that gas is created, that cartridge case is obturating to create a tight seal of the sidewalls of the cartridge case to the sides of the chamber. That creates a gas seal. That in turn directs the gas down the path of least resistance (the barrel) and the gas will push the bullet down the barrel or the gas will launch that dummy off its shaft. To a lesser degree, the gas seal is also important safety wise (too much gas bleeding out backwards could cause damage to your firearm over time, which left unchecked could cause a catastrophic failure someday) but its main importance is for getting as much power from the gas pushing the projectile (bullet or dummy) down the barrel as possible.
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Huntindave McCann wrote:
Ejectors can be had on over/unders as well. They don't release until the firearm is almost fully opened. Whereas an extractor rises as the action is opened.

It is about time for me to go feed my dog. Ususally evening feedings find her sitting on my lap just prior to feeding. When I mention "Is it time to eat?" one would absolutely conclude that my easy chair was fitted with a dog ejector. She hits the floor bouncing in circles. Sly


On double barrels, sometimes the ejector performs two jobs and depending on how hard you open the gun or if you have fired the gun or not, it allows the part to extract and eject. Sometimes on some double barrels it is merely an extractor. Depends on the gun and how it was designed.

Dogs must come preloaded with those ejectors.....mine has one too!
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Dani wrote:
Huntindave McCann wrote:

That is the difference between an "extractor" or an "ejector". An "extractor" lifts the casing a given distance from the chamber. One then usually grabs the casing with his fingers to fully remove the casing. Much as in the same manner as most firearms used for trap shooting. Guys shooting pumps or semiautos, end up with hulls on the ground because their firearms have ejectors.

An ejector removes the casing entirely from the chamber and flings it away. I've never seen an ejector on a dummy launcher. There may be one out there with an ejector, but I've not come across it.



Not to get nitpicky here Dave....actually I will be nitpicky here Sly ...but folk shooting pumps or semiautos end up with hulls on the ground because their guns have extractors AND ejectors. The extractor is the thing that hooks around the rim of the shotshell....often in pump shotguns there are two extractors (those hooks on either side of the bolt?)....and its/their job is to pull that shotshell out of the chamber when the bolt comes back when the action is cycled (through firing or just cycling shotshells in and out of the gun). The ejector is what is responsible for getting that shotshell out of the gun (so you don't have to pull it out by hand like in your dummy launcher). Sometimes the ejectors are fixed in the gun and sometimes they are spring loaded and will only push the shotshell out of the gun when the shotshell has cleared the chamber. But pumps and semiautos have both extractor and ejector.

I'd agree that your dummy launcher has an extractor....can you buy just a new extractor? Are there parts available like you can buy gun parts?

There is a reason for that tight chamber. What is happening during firing (firearms or dummy launchers) is that on firing, the spark created from the primer burns the propellant, creating a great deal of gas in a very short amount of time. When that gas is created, that cartridge case is obturating to create a tight seal of the sidewalls of the cartridge case to the sides of the chamber. That creates a gas seal. That in turn directs the gas down the path of least resistance (the barrel) and the gas will push the bullet down the barrel or the gas will launch that dummy off its shaft. To a lesser degree, the gas seal is also important safety wise (too much gas bleeding out backwards could cause damage to your firearm over time, which left unchecked could cause a catastrophic failure someday) but its main importance is for getting as much power from the gas pushing the projectile (bullet or dummy) down the barrel as possible.


Dani,
You are correct of course and I understand about the casing expanding and sealing against the chamber. If you see my earlier response, the case is also expanding into the slight gap (under the extractor, a gap which is only there because the guide pins have bent) creating a ridge in the case wall. This ridge will not clear the extractor. The extractor lifts the case, yet the case is still locked in under the extractor due to the newly formed ridge on half of the case wall.

The actual chamber is aluminum and quite soft. It already has a few dings marks from prying up with tools to remove the spent casings. I don't think a new extractor is available and I'm not inclined to put any money into it.

Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Richard Lathrop wrote:
A machinist could probably make the part needed.

Rick


Rick,
If I only knew of one. Wink

Sometimes it is just wiser to replace and update to new equipment. I believe this to be one of those times.

Maybe I should consider modifying my .44 into a dummy launcher? Humm, more power, arr-arr. w00t

Take care, Huntindave McCann Smile SHELL ROCK IA. ,,,,,, "As sailors grow older, the wiser ones move to smaller boats." Thomas Firth Jones, Multihull Voyaging
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Huntindave McCann wrote:
Richard Lathrop wrote:
A machinist could probably make the part needed.

Rick



Rick,
If I only knew of one. Wink


I've heard there is one on the DHBP but he's retired and I don't know if he's still worth a darn.......


Carl
Mobile, AL
DHBP Member since 1998

"Life is too short to drink bad beer."
Disclaimer: This post and/or report is not a substantiation of or reflection on the true accuracy of the present surveying methods. It is only a report on or comment concerning local observation and/or results. Your results and observation may vary based on your location, local water conditions, food supply, weather conditions and migratory patterns "
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
I hear ya Dave. My question about the extractor was because I was merely curious about the parts availability for something like that. I love and hate when I get guns that act like your dummy launcher because there are defects that cause deformation of cartridge cases during firing. It often creates for interesting discussion in the office....but I hate it when it is my case that I have to get multiple tests from so I do understand the frustration.
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Huntindave McCann wrote:


Ejectors can be had on over/unders as well. They don't release until the firearm is almost fully opened. Whereas an extractor rises as the action is opened.



I have (or had) guns with extractors, ejectors and both. But... what I'm saying is that the extractor on my dummy launcher used to eject the blank fairly smartly into the air if you popped the launcher open.

Last edited by:

tod osier: Feb 10, 2022, 8:06 AM
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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
https://www.gundogsupply.com/retriev-r-trainer.html


https://www.lcsupply.com/collections/dummy-launchers-bumpers




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Re: 22 caliber dummy launchers In reply to
Dave
How about this. Might even be able to use it on the 4th of July, or training day will be like the 4th