LC Smith Long Range Questions

Eric Patterson

Eric Patterson

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A duck hunting buddy of mine recently lost his 92 year old father and he is starting to get rid of items he doesn't need or want. His father had a large gun collection so some of the guns are up for sale. One gun is a LC Smith 12 gauge sxs with 28" barrels and marked "Long Range" on the bottom of the frame.

I am seriously considering buying this gun even though I've not seen it in person. Problem is I know very little about this gun. How can I determine if it is 3" or 2 3/4" chamber and what the chokes are. Did LC Smith mark the barrels? Also, are the guns with the "Long Range" marking the same as those marked "Waterfowl"? I'd surely love to find another sxs made just for waterfowling as is my HE Super Fox.

Thanks for your help.

Eric
 
Bored and eating lunch. Google provides this article, FWIW. You've probably already seen it, and it does not answer one of your question as it indicates these were made in both 2 3/4" and 3".

As for chokes, it quotes an old catalog: "A distinctive L.C. Smith method of choking adds 15 to 20 yards to ordinary shotgun range specially bored to a longer, tapering choke"

https://www.dogsanddoubles.com/2012/10/the-l-c-smith-long-range-wildfowl-shotgun/
 
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Jeff

I read that article an hour ago :) I'm going after work to look at the gun. Jon actually has two LC Smith Long Range 12s so I can pick. He mentioned one has longer barrels than the other. I'm thinking they are 30 and 32, not 28. He has about a dozen vintage double guns he's going to sell. If his other friends don't buy them I may see if I can help Jon out and sell them here. He's hosting a little gun party tomorrow so I should know pretty soon what is available.

Thanks for the help.

Eric

P.S. I suspect the long range LC Smith claimed comes from a similar design that Fox used. I'd be thrilled to have both in the blind.
 
I figured. It was not hard to find. The article suggests you are correct that this was a copy of the Fox design. Looks like an piece of waterfowl history.
 
Eric,

You could ask them to remove the barrels and check on the flats, or slightly in front of it on the barrel. If there is a chamber length marking it will probably be there. I have seen Smith's with and without. Same for choke marks. Not sure the difference between "Long Range" and "Waterfowl", I am far from an expert on them.
 
SJ

Doing some digging I've found the "Long Range" and "Wild Fowl" are the same gun. The Long Range marking went from 1921 to 1941 and Wild Fowl from 1940 to 1942. Evidently these markings were for marketing purposes and you could buy the same configured gun from LC Smith without either marking.

Eric
 
Good info on the difference (lack of) between the markings. Nothing like marketing to muddy the water.

Somewhere I recall seeing reference to 3" loads being introduced in the mid-30's specifically for waterfowl. I'm pretty sure it was Winchester. So I guess if the gun was manufactured prior to that period, it would not have a factory 3" chamber. My recollection of 3" shell introduction time frames is close to the date ranges you discovered, so I'm going to guess a "Long Range" doesn't have a factory 3" chamber. But always worth checking for markings anyway.
 
I owned one several years ago so I could be mis-remembering. It had 32" barrels and was very "swingy". Great for follow through but once you get them moving it's like trying to stop an 18-wheeler. Definitely a gun for the blind.

For 3" chambers there should be a stamping on the barrel flats. "Long Range" or "Wildfowl" stamped on the bottom of the barrel hook that's visible through the action. Generally speaking, a L.C. Smith Long Range/Wildfowl gun will have 32" barrels choked Full and Full(er). There were some made with 28" or 30" barrels, but they are relatively rare. Production numbers for these guns with 28" barrels are in the single digits so if you find one buy it. Also increasing the rarity will be a single trigger known as the Hunter One Trigger. For some reason there's a bell ringing that says the action was a little beefier than the Regular framed guns but I'm not sure about that.
 
The gun is mine. My friend made me a really sweet deal so I brought it home. Before I forget he has several more shotguns he's selling including a Browning superposed and a Spanish made AYA side-by-side. I'll know tomorrow if they have sold or not. If not I can get info is anyone is serious about them.

The LC Smith I purchased is a 1927 field grade 32" with 3" chambers, no ejectors but it has extractors. I do not know the choke but the markings 710 and 715 under each barrel may hold a clue. I need to gauge them to be sure. The bores are smooth with zero signs of rust or damage. At some point rust got to the frame and there are some stains but no pitting. The stock is cracked but I believe it is repairable. The barrel bluing shows almost no wear. It has a safety that is a bit odd to me. The middle position is safe, and you can move it up or down from there. Not sure if this controls left/right or maybe only allows one barrel. Need to investigate that among other things.

I'm sure the pictures hold some clues so now I need to do some more research. Any info appreciated.

Eric

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That's a nice gun Eric. You'll have fun with it, both shooting and sleuthing it's history.

You are probably on the right track with the bores, the 710 and 715 are likely the chokes. I hope you can save the stock, that crack may give you fits. I like the old style dog leg stocks, I bet the dimensions are something like 2"x 3". That's what I learned to shoot, the old timers said those were "field stocks", parallel combs were "trap stocks". I think it promotes a more relaxed, natural gun mount than the parallel combs so common today. Might remind wake you up with a little cheek slap, but that's half the fun.
 
So I found the below chart. If the 710 and 715 markings are in fact indicating choke then it looks like I have modified and light modified, assuming a .730 bore. I will have it measured to know for sure.

Eric
chart.jpg
 
wrap some duct tape on the stock and it will be fine.

Seriously, that is one hell of a piece of waterfowling history. Can't wait to hear stories of it in action this fall.
Are they "steel safe"? If so, sounds like you have the right chokes for steel.
Probably a fun gun for a dove field too.
 
Carl

Up until about 10 minutes ago I assumed the gun was like most of its kind, full/full. Now if it turns out to be Mod/Lt. Mod steel might not be out of the question, but I'll probably run Boss Bismuth through it anyway.

Eric
 
Carl said:
wrap some duct tape on the stock and it will be fine.
Click to expand...

hahahah Steve did that for a long while on one of his pretty shotguns. Only he used electrical tape. It worked until it didn't.

Eric, for your safety I think the back position is for disengaging the automatic safety and the forward position is the automatic safety position. Both positions allow you to fire the gun but on opening the gun, the safety doesn't necessarily engage depending on which position you have the button on. If it is forward then the safety will automatically engage, if it is back then the safety will never engage until you physically make the change.
 
Whether it has 15 or 20 thousandths constriction, and therefore called LMod or Mod by US convention will depend on the bore size vs. choke. Old time US manufacturers, and a few to this day, don't manufacture their 12 gauge barrels at .729-.730. Many are much larger, around .735-.740, even .760 in the old Baker big bore custom barrel. Some are as small a .725 plus/minus. You need to run the gauge in both the bore and choke areas to figure the constriction. Also, older guns were sometimes marked full or mod etc. based on a particular manufacturers in-house standard. I recall reading that LC Smith chokes tend to pattern tighter than the markings, and constrictions, would otherwise suggest. Off to the pattern board! Those Boss bismuth shells should shoot well in it, without doing damage. Hope it works well for you, and you gather the first duck from your new hotel....er, blind. [smile]
 
Dani said:
Carl said:
wrap some duct tape on the stock and it will be fine.
Click to expand...

hahahah Steve did that for a long while on one of his pretty shotguns. Only he used electrical tape. It worked until it didn't.

Eric, for your safety I think the back position is for disengaging the automatic safety and the forward position is the automatic safety position. Both positions allow you to fire the gun but on opening the gun, the safety doesn't necessarily engage depending on which position you have the button on. If it is forward then the safety will automatically engage, if it is back then the safety will never engage until you physically make the change.
Click to expand...

That makes quite a bit of sense. I'll give it a look tonight. Thanks for providing those details.

Eric
 
SJ

I'm actively looking for a qualified gunsmith who can assess the gun and hopefully make some repairs. I'd prefer not to have to ship but will do so if needed. I believe there is a really good LC Smith specialist about three hours from me in Elijay, GA.. I'm going to contact him.

Eric
 
Smart move Eric. No doubt he'll be able to provide a little history about LC Smith and perhaps your model.
 

Ya have a good piece of waterfowling history in your keeping now. Enjoy it as I believe that you will.


As with vintage Duck Guns, more powder & more shot, tight chokes, and long barrels = Pass Shooting. Now a days a mostly forgotten hunting skill. Gotta kick start em to gettem moving, but once ya do they do as intended.

No need for 3", modern day shells, 2 3/4 will do just fine, and a recoil pad may be considered. Cracked stock is a must repair.

It appears to be in good condition for as old as it is. The reason could be due to recoil that may have caused the stock problem.

A good honest gunsmith will certainly be of great help, and money well spent.


my 2 cents
 
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