topic [10 gauge vrs 12 gauge in 3 1/2 inch shells]

Shermie

Shermie

Well-known member
i had a bud check out shells at KTire and he said according to the box they send out exactly the same amount of pellets. Is this the same thru out the industry,i thought you would get more pellets in the air due to the bigger bore in the 10 gauge..



ok so all you 10 ers out there is this all true ?

are prices on shells the same to?

i was gonna get a 10 now not sure...!!??
 
I have a ten gauge. It has less recoil than shooting 3.5" shells through a 12 ga. Ten years ago when the 12 ga. 3.5" first came out, I shot some with a Mossberg. They were brutal. Bruised shoulder, etc. I can shoot the ten gauge all day. Of course I shoot less shots with the ten too, because birds drop better with it. I think it has to do with the weight of the gun. The barrels are very thick and it swings like a dream, you can't help but have a good follow through.

The pellets will pattern better out of a larger barrel also. These differences may be minor, but they often make up the difference between a clean kill and a cripple with steel shot. I use less shells, since I need less follow up shots on birds.

I don't use the ten gauge every day, but when the birds are farther out it comes in mighty handy. I would probably use it on sea ducks if there were any in Idaho. The shells a a bit more than 3" 12 ga. but much, much cheaper than non-steel non-toxic shot options.
 
Simplistically speaking, which means I'm sure you can find exceptions.

First Same payload at roughly the same velocity is not necessarily the same. The ten gauge stacks it's payload in a shorter column which provides a shorter shot string and less disruption going up the barrel and through the choke plus it reduces the disruptive interplay between the shot. Theoretically, you get improved patterns and shorter shot strings which means more effective shot on target for the same payload and choke. The softer the shot the more deformation and more impact this will have. With steel shot this should be less sever than with lead.

Second, the ten-gauge gun is usually built both heavier and more robust since it's expected to handle these stout loads day in and day out. Reduced recoil and hopefully less breakage will occur for a given number of the heavy loads.

The 3-1/2 twelve has the advantage of flexibility. You can shoot the same gun for pretty much all you shotgunning. Clays or live birds and you can match your load to be very appropriate. !-1/8 oz loads to 2+ oz turkey loads. You can be ducking with 3" 3's and quickly switch to 3-1/2 BB loads if geese start to work. I occasionally hunt with some friends that us 10 ga guns almost exclusively for waterfowling but man catching up to the screamers with the heavy guns is almost impossible. They also pretty much pass up close shots for ones out there a bit. Ammo for the 12 is a heck of a lot cheaper and more readily available.

Finally A ten gives you the excuse to buy another gun, assuming you need an excuse.

Scott
 
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well i dont know about the tens but i shot a case of 3.5's through my 870 last year and the shoulder thing wasent that bad, because i switched out the factory recoil pad for a sims vibration laboratory pad made for remington, they call it an R3 pad but same thing. i noticed a good difference in recoil and didnt seem to mind the big shells.

i'll be shooting 3.5's again this season for sure.

eddie
 
The 10 ga vs 12 ga discussions I have read boil down to one thing. They are apples to oranges. The only real factor I have seen/read is the shot string differences. The 12 ga is restricted to how much shot can pass through the bore at one time without causing poor shot patterns. To compensate for the shot string being deformed on a 3.5 12 ga. I have noticed that almost all 3.5's are back bored to relieve the stress caused by the funneling effect. This equates to a longer more consistent shot string. The ten ga throws a "fatter cloud of pellets" while the 12 ga makes a longer cloud. The end result is a choice you make to accentuate your shooting skills. I sold my browning 10 to buy the superx2 in 12 ga. Fundamentally these are the same guns, with differences in the size of platforms they are built on. I don't think manufacturers build their guns to shoot the heavy loads sometimes. I think the versatility factor of a 2&3/4, 3, and 3.5 offers a broader market for one gun buyers. I like the autos because of the gas or inertia reduces the felt recoil by using the action of the discharging shell.
 
12 vs 10 bore is all about shot charge to bore ratio. All shotguns are that actually. If I remember correctly in the 12 bore the opt. shot charge is only 1 1/4 oz. to the 12 bore. I don't remember the 10 bore oz. It's like trying to put 10#'s of poo in a 5# bag. When you pattern your shotgun on paper you get 2-d, but really its 3-d w/ the shot string strecthed like a swarm of bees before it hits the target. Smaller bore same amount of shot and you get longer "swarm of pellets" Bigger bore shorter "swarm" w/ thick pattern arriving at target at near the same time.
That is why 10's have rep for hitting harder. More pellets, times, foot #'s of energy on target at same time= harder hitting. If a #2 pellet leaves the bore at 1550fps it doesn't matter what gauge it is. Its still 1550fps w/x amount of energy.
Anyone who thinks shot string time in flight doesn't matter needs to try and shoot a stationary sea duck cripple. You can watch your buddy waste his shells as the pattern arrives on the target. lit a lone left to right or vise virsa.
I got kinda long winded on that but I had a hard time getting it till some old timers taught me and I read about it more.

Gene R.
 
Dad has a 10 double and I've shot mostly 12's with 3 1/2 capablility. When shooting comparable loads the 10 will handle large payloads of large shot better, hands down. But when versalitity is the issue the 12 has it. If you plan on shooting mostly heavy waterfowl loads, go with the ten. I enjoy being able to switch out from light 2 3/4 loads for teal to heavy 3 1/2 loads in the same gun. I've backed off and rarely shoot 3 1/2 loads anymore, the 3" loads seem to pattern and hit better anyway, at least I shoot them better!

If I was a goose hunter, I would own a 10. Since I'm a duck huter that shoots the occasional goose, I'll stick with my 12 and buy the GOOD shells when I hunt geese.

IMHO they are not comparable, loads may be the same but the delivery is vastly different, as well as the gun handling.

Gene
 
any more guys i have numerous 12`s autos and pumps etc up to 3 in so i think withthis added info a new 10 auto is gonna be my penny saving item for this year..

now the new question is ???

what make and model should i get in a 10 ???

i hunt alot of salt water or should say prefer the solitude of the bays and shores instead of the infighting with inbreds over who has permission to hunt said particular piece of prime waterfowl habitat or field.....

id love a pure stainless like the AA12 in a 10 gauge and of course i would nt need the 32 round clip or would i ummmm ,it be nice to have if cival war broke out or some type of cival unrest and one has to protect ones self and property ,oooo wait a sec i dont live in the states i live in canada and we have gun laws ...so that by the time i did get said key into lock and get gun out then go get key for amo lock up and get it im already on the way to the perly gates leading into valhala where the finest hunting grounds are to be found...

so its a semi with a 3 round limiter plug please...lol
 
Shermie,

I love my 10-gauge, but it is a purpose-built gun. If I'm in the flooded timber, shooting wood ducks and mallards at 10 yards, the 10 is not the right gun. If I was in a layout in freshwater, shooting bluebills, buffleheads, etc. at "eyeball to eyeball" distance, I wouldn't use the 10, though I have. If I'm going after teal, the 10 is not the best choice, either.

But, when I'm gunning open water, and especially if I'm shooting "backup" where my shots are going to start after the birds have flared, the 10 is nice to have. It just seems to "kick" the birds harder when you have to try and down a sailing cripple or shoot "leftovers". The larger bore handles the payloads better, and part of the tradeoff with the 3 1/2" 12 is a smaller payload to get more speed. Or, you can up the load and slow it down a little. Either way, the barrel constriction has more of an effect, and I'd as soon shoot the 10 as a 3 1/2" 12. As anecdotal evidence, too, I know a good number of people down here in Arkansas who have a 3 1/2" 12, and tout its versatility to be the "one gun", but some rarely and some never shoot the 3 1/2" shells through it...so, why have it?

I have a BPS that weighs in at about 10.25 pounds, unloaded, with a long barrel (30"?). The weight absorbs most of the perceived recoil, and you get a "push" rather than a stab. It also means that once you get your swing going, it will keep going.

If I was going to buy another 10, I'd go with the Remington SP-10, which is basically the old Ithaca Mag 10. It won't win any beauty contests like a 10 gauge side-by-side, but again, it's purpose-built. Browning had some troubles early on with their Gold in 10-gauge, but I have recently heard good things about them, too.

Regardless of which 10 you get, spend some time and find the "magic" load for it. The best load for my BPS was Winchester #1's; they quit making them, but it was a stone killer load on everything from bluebills to Canada geese, no "stack loading" with 1's, BB's, etc., just shoot #1's all around. I actually found some Kent #1's and am going to try them this year.

Good luck, and let us know what you do!
 
thanks some realy good points there ,and low and behold a 10 has shown up in the buy and sale page but the opnly prob i cant get it cuz of da! border thing and our gun laws...

there is a browning dealer real close to me.....???

i think i will get one in camo for sure as i have never bought a newer gun with factory camo job its always been the sparay can special or electrical tape for winter lol worked great tho...

what to get there are so many out there...
 
Shermie, The Duratouch finish on the gold and x2 is where it is at for a couple of years. After a couple of years however the soft outer protective layer starts to peel away around the stock's grip where it connects to the housing. I have had my x2 for going on 7 years now and have had very little of this peeling. I have talked with some of my hunting buddies that have the gold and x2's that are experiencing the same thing. Some have had this happen earlier, but you know how some people are tough on their guns.
 
Shermie, I shoot a BPS 10 and love it but as has been stated it is a bit of a single purpose gun. One of my hunting buddies has a SP-10 and he calls it AT&T (Reach out and touch). The auto is a smooth shooter but I prefer a pump. Never had a bit of trouble with it either. On the 3.5" 12 issue I also have a super mag 870 and the option is good BUT it will hurt with the 3 1/2"rs. I think the long chamber is a recoil reducer with shorter loads and at least it doesn't hurt anything. Good Luck, gun shopping is always fun. BTW I also have a 20 ga 870 Express that gets a lot of use. One gun would be hard to pick.
 
I got a Browning Gold hunter 3 1/2" when they first came out. I used 3 1/2" shells for a couple years but went to 3" after that since the high speed 3" did everything and more that the ceegar 3 1/2" did. If I already had a 3" 12, and wanted something "more", I'd go 10ga....I actually went 28ga with hevi and get as good as results as with my 12. Still gotta hit them no matter what you use!
 
Lee, It is kinda funny because just this spring I had a temporary loss of reason and brought home a 28 Wingmaster. Got over the sticker shock for factory loads and now am having a ball with it. I had a problem last week with some 2.5" Fiochi hulls tearing out the rim. The shell stuck in the chamber and tore out the rim but when I pushed out the hull with a stick it just fell out. ????? W.T.H.?? Any of you 28 ga. guys got an idea. I am going to call BP tommorrow to see what is up. These were factory primed but measure the same as AAs and resized to the same. The load wasa 5/8 oz w/ Universal Clays and a BP wad.
 
Not sure Tom. It could be a batch of weak rims or a dirty chamber/burr. A lot of people polish their chambers anymore since quality control seems to have gone to hell. Have you shot any other hulls? I bought a bunch of Cheddite hulls from BP for my heavier loads(those things are cavernous) but haven't shot any yet. I wouldn't think the 2 1/2 would have anything to do with it..but...you could get a buildup in front where it may affect 2 3/4" if you don't scrub it out.
 
. These were factory primed but measure the same as AAs and resized to the same. The load wasa 5/8 oz w/ Universal Clays and a BP wad.

Tom,pull up the load data for the 28ga.Universal is the powder to use.Clays is too hot.I shoot it in 12ga and some pistol,like 45ACP.You want about 13-14.5 gr of universal for the 28ga.Wads and hull make a minor difference.You can get load data from various sites,including BP.
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. These were factory primed but measure the same as AAs and resized to the same. The load wasa 5/8 oz w/ Universal Clays and a BP wad.

Tom,pull up the load data for the 28ga.Universal is the powder to use.Clays is too hot.I shoot it in 12ga and some pistol,like 45ACP.You want about 13-14.5 gr of universal for the 28ga.Wads and hull make a minor difference.You can get load data from various sites,including BP.
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Click to expand...


Joe, he said "Universal Clays". I use it in target loads too for my 28. I think having two powders named "Clays" is a bit stupid from a manufacturer...the one you use is probably "International Clays".
 
Lee, It is stupid to have two very different powders with such a similar name. You are correct aboout universal Clays though, that is what I used. I am getting ready to call BP right now and will let youall know what they say. One advantage to being a local call.
 
. These were factory primed but measure the same as AAs and resized to the same. The load wasa 5/8 oz w/ Universal Clays and a BP wad.

Tom,pull up the load data for the 28ga.Universal is the powder to use.Clays is too hot.I shoot it in 12ga and some pistol,like 45ACP.You want about 13-14.5 gr of universal for the 28ga.Wads and hull make a minor difference.You can get load data from various sites,including BP.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Joe, he said "Universal Clays". I use it in target loads too for my 28. I think having two powders named "Clays" is a bit stupid from a manufacturer...the one you use is probably "International Clays".
Click to expand...

You're right.I shoot Hodgdon almost exclusively and have referred to "Clays",as my 12ga and drop the clays from any reference to International,or universal.So the problem may still be an overload?,bad sheel,or rough chamber,like you said.
 
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