This is disturbing

I have no doubt that someday, something like this will come to be. Folks who are unwilling to learn from history, and are more inclined to rewrite history, are doomed to repeat it.
 
One day this or something very similar will get passed. Almost certainly within my lifetime. Perhaps even in the next few years. The writing is on the wall, and the writing is large.
 
We hashed this over here on the forum about 2 months, ago.
This bill is DOA.
Will never make it out of committee.

Remember, we heard the same talk/chatter about similar legislation getting passed when both Clinton and Obama were elected and neither proposed or tried to pass the draconian gun legislation that was predicted.
Gun and ammo industry sure did make a lot of money though. Remember bullet hording and .22 rounds going for 50cents/each??
Not saying gunowners don't need to be diligent but I also don't think we will see anything like get backing to make it anywhere.
 
Carl said:
We hashed this over here on the forum about 2 months, ago.
This bill is DOA.
Will never make it out of committee.

Remember, we heard the same talk/chatter about similar legislation getting passed when both Clinton and Obama were elected and neither proposed or tried to pass the draconian gun legislation that was predicted.
Gun and ammo industry sure did make a lot of money though. Remember bullet hording and .22 rounds going for 50cents/each??
Not saying gunowners don't need to be diligent but I also don't think we will see anything like get backing to make it anywhere.
Click to expand...

What Carl said is true. As people who by default, support gun rights, we often take to these things harshly. This is never going to pass. Rather, it's a "decoy" or bargaining chip. Remember, you never negotiate low. More than likely this will be the starting point to negotiate down.
 
Phil Nowack said:
You don't need a license for a Unalienable Right.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that is at the core of where bills like this are coming from:

For example, Second Amendment rights guaranteed by the Constitution were clarified and defined for all citizens by the U.S. Supreme Court in a 2008 decision, written for the majority by the late Justice Antonin Scalia. In this clarification of the original Constitution, he affirmed that individual gun ownership is a constitutional right but he continued in his decision to write that "...like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited." He made it clear that restrictions on gun ownership, types of guns, sales, where they can be carried and other public safety concerns are also secured by the Second Amendment.


Those of us who understand responsible gun ownership and harbor no knee-jerk fear of guns owned and used responsibly (myself included) often take comfort in thinking "this will never happen"; but we've seen plenty that pushes back the markers of what we long considered common sense issues. This usually happens in increments, until the 'frog in the pot' croaks. It would be naive not to pay attention. So to repeat my original thought : "Lord help us in the event it would ever get enough traction to allow revisions and compromises to be considered."


 
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Phil Nowack said:
You don't need a license for a Unalienable Right.
Click to expand...

I didn't have time to read that entire thing, but are those requirements upon purchase of a new gun, or after the fact for guns we currently own too?

Phil, to your comment:

Here is the process that I went through to get my .22 Pistol.

Drive 50 miles to HQ to get the application, they will not mail it or download it.
6 month review with references including your boss and spouse.
Receive the permit that allows you to go to a store and TOUCH a gun.
Pay for it.
Take that receipt 50 miles to pickup the affidavit that the gun store has to fill out.
Take that affidavit 50 miles to the gun store to have them fill it out.
Take that 50 miles back to HQ to have them add the gun to your license, now you can get the gun.
Take that 50 miles back to the gun store to get the gun.
Take that 50 miles back to HQ to photograph the gun and take the make, model and serial number.
Now you are "free" to go......

Honest to God, that's the process here on Long Island.
 
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Paul Mc said:
Phil Nowack said:
You don't need a license for a Unalienable Right.
Click to expand...

I didn't have time to read that entire thing, but are those requirements upon purchase of a new gun, or after the fact for guns we currently own too?

Phil, to your comment:

Here is the process that I went through to get my .22 Pistol.

Drive 50 miles to HQ to get the application, they will not mail it or download it.
6 month review with references including your boss and spouse.
Receive the permit that allows you to go to a store and TOUCH a gun.
Pay for it.
Take that receipt 50 miles to pickup the affidavit that the gun store has to fill out.
Take that affidavit 50 miles to the gun store to have them fill it out.
Take that 50 miles back to HQ to have them add the gun to your license, now you can get the gun.
Take that 50 miles back to the gun store to get the gun.
Take that 50 miles back to HQ to photograph the gun and take the make, model and serial number.
Now you are "free" to go......

Honest to God, that's the process here on Long Island.
Click to expand...


And I thought NJ was bad
 
Yes never say never. When they say they are coming for your guns they mean it. They don?t know the difference in any of them. Any gun can be assault.
 
I disagree that this will never get out of committee. The times today are much different than they were when Obama and Clinton were President. Much different. Since the Democrats own all three branches og Government, and IMO the Supreme Court as well. What is to stop them this time. Anyone think they are afraid of losing their job? Not a chance. Should HR1 pass and completely change the voting laws of this Country, and NATIONALIZE the election, they can do whatever they want and no one can stop them.

Look what they are doing already. 15,000 troops surrounding the Capital and high razor wire fences. Why do you think this is happening. To protect us from them or them from us.

I am worried. Never have been before. The Democratic Governor here with the Dems in charge are making a strong push to change the laws in MN and MN is a very strong pro gun State. They are no longer afraid.

Sorry, didn't mean to get into politics here on the DBHF but guess one can't talk about this issue without doing so.

Mark
 
When Chris Rock said "don't bother restricting guns, just make bullets $100 a piece!" he may not have known the "wisdom" of his statement. Because that's exactly the spirit that all this is functioning under. The Left will mock you "oh, don't worry Paul, no one is going to come down your chimney to take all your beloved guns." And they are right, there will be no Thunder Clap round up of guns. But here is another example of NY's slow, deliberate erosion of rights:
When I first got that .22 that I explained before, the Gun Owners Handbook had a bunch of "frequently asked questions" in the back. How do I get to the range and back with my gun was the one I was looking for.

2015 answer: "You are required to carry the gun loaded and concealed to and from the range. You may stop for general errands and a meal.....etc etc etc" This was designed to protect the gun. So if you left it in your case and then your wife took your car somewhere, or if you were jumped because someone wanted it......that wouldn't happen.

2018 answer : "You may carry the gun, loaded and concealed to and from.......etc etc

2021 answer: "While you are allowed to carry your gun loaded and concealed to and from the range, we strongly recommend that you do not....etc etc etc..."

So here you have in black and white this erosion that only took 6 years and NONE of this required the changing of a law, public comment or any such thing. Then NJ sites NY as precedence, CT doesn't want to be left out and onward the dominoes fall. (BTW, I really don't know if NJ and CT did that, but for the sake of argument, that's how it happens.)
 
Huntindave McCann said:
I have no doubt that someday, something like this will come to be. Folks who are unwilling to learn from history, and are more inclined to rewrite history, are doomed to repeat it.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more:

Senate approves open carry ban at Capitol, permitted rallies (michigansthumb.com)

Michigan State Capitol Overrun by Armed Lockdown Protesters - YouTube

Whitmer kidnapping plot hearing live feed: Confidential FBI informant testifies (msn.com)

2021 storming of the United States Capitol - Wikipedia

QAnon Theory Prompted Unnamed Militia's Plot to Breach Capitol on March 4: Capitol Police (newsweek.com)

Now, let's play Venn diagram to determine who this legislation, should it EVER receive a co-sponsor or enough support to be voted out of committee and onto the floor, which it hasn't to date, would largely impact. That's right the "Fat Gandalf Security Defemse Farce".. Yet it (the legislation) is still deemed a threat to "responsible gun owners". Did I mention I have a nearly full gun safe. Did I mention that I used to shoot with my brothers and my dad when he would practice for the Police Competitive shooting squad in our home town. We shot everthing from match .22 revolvers up to a Ruger .44 magnum (which I nearly dropped from the recoil), as well as watching a demonstration of the two Thompson sub-machine guns with rotary magazines- you have to fire them in short bursts because of the sequential muzzle jump, not shoot them swing side-to-side...

Now, let's take a timeline look at history to determine the progression of 'private armies' in the United States of America:

The 'Patriot' Movement Timeline | Southern Poverty Law Center (splcenter.org)

Antigovernment militia groups grew by more than one-third in last year | Southern Poverty Law Center (splcenter.org)

Fact Sheets on Unlawful Militias for All 50 States Now Available from Georgetown Law?s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection | Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection | Georgetown Law

Note how many states list militias as illegal entities under the title private armies

I left-out the fact that three of the 'patriots' now under arrest in Michigan were at the State Capitol, pictured in the crowd in April, 2020.

MarkW, I am always impressed by your ability to rework current events as well as history into a paranoid conspiracy driven narrative...makes me suspect that our news sources don't have broad overlap, nor, for one of us, a facts based narrative associated with that reporting. I still fervently believe in a Free Press that conveys factual information. Why? I fully grasped what Adolf Hitler was driving at when he outlined the value of the Grosse Luege, as grandpa Sauer called it... I suspect DJT stole the technique from Ray Cohn, the mentor his father hand-picked for him. Cohn polished the approach when he worked for 'Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy', as did Nixon. who gave rise to Roger Stone. Like the Runge-Kutta history is cyclic. I hold, however, it is far more important to address the disinformation disseminated via social media than attempt to achieve any National Gun Control legislation, even though 90% of the electorate support it...too much us versus them with facts and logic the initial casualties.
 
RLLigman said:
Huntindave McCann said:
I have no doubt that someday, something like this will come to be. Folks who are unwilling to learn from history, and are more inclined to rewrite history, are doomed to repeat it.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more:

Senate approves open carry ban at Capitol, permitted rallies (michigansthumb.com)

Michigan State Capitol Overrun by Armed Lockdown Protesters - YouTube

Whitmer kidnapping plot hearing live feed: Confidential FBI informant testifies (msn.com)

2021 storming of the United States Capitol - Wikipedia

QAnon Theory Prompted Unnamed Militia's Plot to Breach Capitol on March 4: Capitol Police (newsweek.com)

Now, let's play Venn diagram to determine who this legislation, should it EVER receive a co-sponsor or enough support to be voted out of committee and onto the floor, which it hasn't to date, would largely impact. That's right the "Fat Gandalf Security Defemse Farce".. Yet it (the legislation) is still deemed a threat to "responsible gun owners". Did I mention I have a nearly full gun safe. Did I mention that I used to shoot with my brothers and my dad when he would practice for the Police Competitive shooting squad in our home town. We shot everthing from match .22 revolvers up to a Ruger .44 magnum (which I nearly dropped from the recoil), as well as watching a demonstration of the two Thompson sub-machine guns with rotary magazines- you have to fire them in short bursts because of the sequential muzzle jump, not shoot them swing side-to-side...

Now, let's take a timeline look at history to determine the progression of 'private armies' in the United States of America:

The 'Patriot' Movement Timeline | Southern Poverty Law Center (splcenter.org)

Antigovernment militia groups grew by more than one-third in last year | Southern Poverty Law Center (splcenter.org)

Fact Sheets on Unlawful Militias for All 50 States Now Available from Georgetown Law?s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection | Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection | Georgetown Law

Note how many states list militias as illegal entities under the title private armies

I left-out the fact that three of the 'patriots' now under arrest in Michigan were at the State Capitol, pictured in the crowd in April, 2020.

MarkW, I am always impressed by your ability to rework current events as well as history into a paranoid conspiracy driven narrative...makes me suspect that our news sources don't have broad overlap, nor, for one of us, a facts based narrative associated with that reporting. I still fervently believe in a Free Press that conveys factual information. Why? I fully grasped what Adolf Hitler was driving at when he outlined the value of the Grosse Luege, as grandpa Sauer called it... I suspect DJT stole the technique from Ray Cohn, the mentor his father hand-picked for him. Cohn polished the approach when he worked for 'Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy', as did Nixon. who gave rise to Roger Stone. Like the Runge-Kutta history is cyclic. I hold, however, it is far more important to address the disinformation disseminated via social media than attempt to achieve any National Gun Control legislation, even though 90% of the electorate support it...too much us versus them with facts and logic the initial casualties.
Click to expand...

Please point exactly where I am rewriting history and not understanding current events o to conspiracy theories. Exactly where.
 
Nice thing about DHBP is that we usually don't get (heavily) into politics.

I'm not one to stifle open discussion but I suggest it might be time to take this one offline.
 
The military presence in Washington, along with the concomitant fences and razor-wire did not just leap out of the ground, Mark, it was erected as a response to an EVENT. Its continued presence has been requested by the Capital Hill Police force leadership. Your perspective of the Supreme Court under control of the Democratic Party is wholly yours, not supported by any evidence or action. You lump the entire Democratic party into one block who collectively move as one block, which is simply not true, nor rational. BOTH parties, are comprised of Americans, each with rights, individual perspectives, and an inherent love of their country... a lesson you opt to never even consider, let alone internalize.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/raskin-demands-briefing-from-fbi-on-extremists-infiltrating-police-military/ar-BB1es2JH?ocid=msedgntp We have a domestic terrorist and terrorism problem in this country.


My dad saw the same "flow" of individuals with very different ideologies into law enforcement after the Watts and Detroit riots in the late sixties. The cycle has simply repeated because we again opted to ignore history.


Carl, Bob's frog will get boiled, not because the pond's temperature will climb in tiny increments it fails to respond too, but because the frog fails to respond in any other way than its conditioned knee-jerk manor to broad cultural events in the pond that indicate a societal sea change. Wayne Lapierre will likely not survive his IRS investigation; his legacy will.


Wayne LaPierre Scandal: NRA Honcho Repays $300,000 in Illicit Gains - Rolling Stone


 
Carl said:
Nice thing about DHBP is that we usually don't get (heavily) into politics.

I'm not one to stifle open discussion but I suggest it might be time to take this one offline.
Click to expand...

Intelligent discussion between law abiding gun owners certainly helps keep us informed and provides numerous points of view. Let it roll. Indiana and Michigan are still pretty gun friendly. It's interesting to hear about the more restrictive states and how restrictive gun legislation passed.

Only my opinion, and I don't make the rules.

RVZ
 
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