This is disturbing

I would prefer this topic go offline. Everyone has a right to their own opinions and I do not believe in cancel culture. But I have seen too many discussions on other boards descend into name calling and people getting banned.

Rick
 
I try to refrain from categorizing all members of any group, social, political, racial, or otherwise, as being a monolithic block.

That said, the response from the far right and Republic party leaders, to the events of January 6th that lead to National Guard and razor wire at our capitol, make me question the viability of the party I used to be a proud member of.
I also have serious issues with the far left and its more extreme socialist leanings.

Gun crimes, especially mass shootings, are a serious problem, but how to balance "gun control" and gun rights is tricky even in the most politically balanced times, most likely impossible in this most divisive of times.
I certainly don't think the ridiculous procedures that our members go through in NY to buy a gun a/o ammunition are the answer.
But I also didnt support the lifting of the assault weapon & large capacity magazine ban that was in place years back and that genie is now out of the bottle.
 
I'm all for discussion and I think just about the absolute most useful information shared here is the information on where some states are as far as control and how fast they got there. Obviously someone could just look it up, but having someone from NY share their process should be an eye opener for anyone who isn't familiar.
 
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tod osier said:
I'm all for discussion and I think just about the absolute most useful information shared here is the information on where some states are as far as control and how fast they got there. Obviously someone could just look it up, but having someone from NY share their process should be an eye opener for anyone who isn't familiar.
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Let me ask you a question, being a full professor in academics have you ever been ostracized by liberal faculty members because you are a hunter and active gun owner? At one time I would have thought being in a science department may insulate you a bit from these attitudes that are prevalent in institutions of higher learning, especially the humanities departments. But with recent developments, such as mathematicians being accused of teaching math from a white supremacy culture point-of-view, and practitioners being accused of using math to uphold capitalist, imperialist, and racist views, it appears nobody is safe from the woke mob, not even math nerds. So I have to wonder does a gun owning animal killing professor, such as yourself, draw criticism from cohorts?

Eric
 
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Eric Patterson said:
tod osier said:
I'm all for discussion and I think just about the absolute most useful information shared here is the information on where some states are as far as control and how fast they got there. Obviously someone could just look it up, but having someone from NY share their process should be an eye opener for anyone who isn't familiar.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you a question, being a full professor in academics have you ever been ostracized by liberal faculty member because you are a hunter and active gun owner? At one time I would have thought being in a science department may insulate you a bit from these attitudes that are prevalent in institutions of higher learning, especially the humanities departments. But with recent developments, such as mathematicians being accused of teaching math from a white supremacy culture point-of-view, and practitioners being accused of using math to uphold capitalist, imperialist, and racist views, it appears nobody is safe from the woke mob, not even math nerds. So I have to wonder does a gun owning animal killing professor, such as yourself, draw criticism from cohorts?

Eric
Click to expand...

I haven't had any uncomfortable experiences, but I'm absolutely sure that I could at some point. "Everyone" knows I hunt avidly and I have a lot of good conversations with folks at work - faculty, staff and students. There are a couple people I've been wondering if I'll tangle with on those issues, but haven't. I suspect that those who have a real problem choose not make it known (as much as I like to argue on the internet, I'm much more happy to do it in person). :). I think it is important to note that respect needs to go both ways and I respect the choices that others make. My experience with academia is that discourse is valued. I know and work with a very diverse group of people and I feel fortunate to do so.

The past 10 years, I've added more and more hunting content into my courses where it is appropriate and I have found it to be well received. We don't have all that many students that hunt (a decent number fish), but I think the hunting content I share certainly gives students perspective as to where I'm coming from and opens some eyes. I'm not out to convert anyone, but I do try to offer a look into my world with the hope that students can learn something.
 
tod osier said:
I'm all for discussion and I think just about the absolute most useful information shared here is the information on where some states are as far as control and how fast they got there. Obviously someone could just look it up, but having someone from NY share their process should be an eye opener for anyone who isn't familiar.
Click to expand...
I'm with Tod on this observation. I'm attaching a link to Ohio's CCW summary report for 2020 which I feel speaks well of the vast majority of Ohioan's who have chosen to follow the procedure for the required class and range time required to obtain their CCW permit. On the other hand, when I walk into a sporting goods store and see people standing 6 - deep at the gun counter, knowing that large numbers of these folks never intend to apply for a CCW permit, well that's a bit disturbing as well. After page 6, it's just a county summary, but the stats in the first 6 pages are encouraging. The recent adaptation of the ability to cross check disqualifying information (pg. 6) on a regular basis is encouraging as well.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...20-CCW-Annual-Report Didn't originally post this to spark any sort of a firefight, and I hope that all can respectfully put forth an opinion. If need be Eric, feel free to take the whole thing down.
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New York isn't alone in how tough it is to purchase a gun. Last year I wanted to purchase a .22LR pistol to do some plinking. Nothing more. I didn't know the process but soon found out what all is involved.

1. Go to the Sheriff department and fill out a bunch of paperwork and submit to a background check. Cost is free but took about three weeks to get back the required permit to purchase. This now gives me the "right" to purchase a firearm
2. Go to the store (3 hour round trip) to purchase the pistol. Submit to the NICS background check. Of course it didn't come back right away so I have to go home and wait.
3. 4 days pass and I haven't heard anything. Call the store and they don't know what is going on. They will check for me.
4. Wait a couple more days and call back. They said I am now approved and drive on down to purchase the gun. Three hour round trip again.
5. Enjoy the gun for about a couple of weeks and then have some trouble. Store only had one so I have to send it back to the manufacturer which I do.
6. Manufacturer says gun is faulty and is not fixable. They are going to send me a new gun with a new serial number. But wait, the gun I purchased in MN is not legal in MN according to the manufacturer. MN has a law on the books that require certain parts of the gun have to melt above a certain temp. Law is to keep cheap guns out of the hands of the criminals. I bet that law is working.
7. Gun manufacturer is unable to send me the gun directly since it is a new gun and not a repaired gun. They have to send it to a licensed gun dealer. No problem, I have a Cabela's 1 mile down the road from me.
8. Cabelas won't do the transaction since the gun is not allowed to be sold in MN. I am confused as the gun is being sold all over MN at legit gun shops. I even pull up web pages showing the gun for sale.
9. Call the place I purchased the original gun from. They will act as the FF for me.
10. Since the gun is a new serialized gun, I have to go through another background check and yep, I get denied. How can I get denied as I just purchased a handgun not that long ago and was approved. (Another 3 hour round trip)
11. Eventually I am approved and go down to pick up the gun (more drive time). Have to pay another background fee and transfer fee.
12. Being new to pistols, I didn't understand all the rules of carry in MN and the other States I will have the gun on me. Decide it is best to take a Conceal Carry class.
13. Complete the class and then have to go to the county sheriff department and submit my completed class form and pay $50 for the permit that is good for 5 years. Another background check.
14. Wait about 1.5 months for the permit to come back

So, i had to go through 5 background checks, pay $50 in NICS fees, $25 for FFL transfer, and $90 for the carry class plus all the driving and frustration. All this for me to own a pistol that is constitutionally guaranteed for me to own and carry. And the only amendment that specifically states "shall not be infringed"

Yeah, we need more background check laws and even more laws, fees, taxes and classes to own a gun. My ass.

Do I need a permit to speak my mind? How about attend church? Do I need to take a class and pay special fees to stop warrantless searches and seizures? Need I go on?
 
I had no idea that was where MN was Mark. Thanks for the info/

CT is very restrictive, but the carry permit is straightforward, just work, money and time to get (but a restriction on many levels nonetheless). We need a permit to buy guns, ammo and carry, there are different permits for each, but a carry permit trumps all, so the only one needed if you have it.
 
tod osier said:
Eric Patterson said:
tod osier said:
I'm all for discussion and I think just about the absolute most useful information shared here is the information on where some states are as far as control and how fast they got there. Obviously someone could just look it up, but having someone from NY share their process should be an eye opener for anyone who isn't familiar.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you a question, being a full professor in academics have you ever been ostracized by liberal faculty member because you are a hunter and active gun owner? At one time I would have thought being in a science department may insulate you a bit from these attitudes that are prevalent in institutions of higher learning, especially the humanities departments. But with recent developments, such as mathematicians being accused of teaching math from a white supremacy culture point-of-view, and practitioners being accused of using math to uphold capitalist, imperialist, and racist views, it appears nobody is safe from the woke mob, not even math nerds. So I have to wonder does a gun owning animal killing professor, such as yourself, draw criticism from cohorts?

Eric
Click to expand...

I haven't had any uncomfortable experiences, but I'm absolutely sure that I could at some point. "Everyone" knows I hunt avidly and I have a lot of good conversations with folks at work - faculty, staff and students. There are a couple people I've been wondering if I'll tangle with on those issues, but haven't. I suspect that those who have a real problem choose not make it known (as much as I like to argue on the internet, I'm much more happy to do it in person). :). I think it is important to note that respect needs to go both ways and I respect the choices that others make. My experience with academia is that discourse is valued. I know and work with a very diverse group of people and I feel fortunate to do so.

The past 10 years, I've added more and more hunting content into my courses where it is appropriate and I have found it to be well received. We don't have all that many students that hunt (a decent number fish), but I think the hunting content I share certainly gives students perspective as to where I'm coming from and opens some eyes. I'm not out to convert anyone, but I do try to offer a look into my world with the hope that students can learn something.
Click to expand...

Hey Todd (and truly ALL of you)...
Here is the Atlantic article that sparked the book. The article encapsulates it well, but the book is mind-blowing. Let me know what you think:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/
 
Agreed tod. I didn't realize NY was worse. The fact that anyone goes through the process to get an ammo or "long gun eligibility" certificate blows my mind. Get the pistol permit, same amount of work, less insanity. Granted I heard the renewals are backed up to high heck. Hope they fix that before I have to renew mine.
 
Nick Zito said:
Agreed tod. I didn't realize NY was worse. The fact that anyone goes through the process to get an ammo or "long gun eligibility" certificate blows my mind. Get the pistol permit, same amount of work, less insanity. Granted I heard the renewals are backed up to high heck. Hope they fix that before I have to renew mine.
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NY has been that way for decades (like 4 decades). The real genius angle on NY from a control standpoint is that local judges have control over the process, so you have this matrix of restrictions depending on county, that makes it even more of a burden. Some counties let you do one thing, others are more restrictive. Getting a carry permit in many (most?) is quite difficult. Just the permit process for purchase/possession (not carry) requires non-family references from the county, so what if you are newly there? Each handgun goes on your permit.

When the shit went down in CT, I was pleased with the outcome given how bad it could have been and that has bought us some time (at great cost). Don't get me wrong, it is asinine and an infringement, but I'm able to exist here under the rules. I will live out the last of my years in a free state tho' - 8 years and counting.
 
Yep, this is a entirely ridiculous process.
I agree with background checks, but what you went through is just ridiculous.
 
Paul,

Meanwhile my sons college English class is writing response articles to an Atlantic article about not calling kids smart.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/06/the-s-word/397205/

The politicians never cease to make a fool out of me. No sooner had I typed the words that we should get along on the board Congress decides to push on gun control taking advantage of a weakened NRA. Maybe they left the fences up for a reason. I get the feeling it is an obvious divide between the people and the politicians.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/11/house-passes-bill-to-expand-background-checks-for-gun-sales-475329

Rick
 
tod osier said:
Some counties let you do one thing, others are more restrictive. .
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For those who may not know, Long Island is divided into Nassau County to the west and Suffolk to the east. Nassau County licensing is overseen my the County Police. BUT......The five westernmost towns of Suffolk County are overseen by the Suffolk County Police Department but the entire eastern end of the SAME county is overseen by the Sheriff. So that means that there are guns that are illegal in one part of the same county that are legal in the eastern portion of that county. Zero in on the actual street where literally one guy can have the MP22 and the guy across the street cannot. It is a classic overstep where police are interpreting the law and not enforcing it.
 
On this specific gun issue, universal background checks, public opinion is overwhelming supportive according to the vast majority of polling.
 
Carl said:
On this specific gun issue, universal background checks, public opinion is overwhelming supportive according to the vast majority of polling.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It strikes me that the ridiculous processes described above don't relate to the national background check requirement, but to more restrictive local rules about handguns, compounded by burdensome processes to comply with them. And in the case of Long Island, it sounds like there might be different rules where people live vs. the shop they purchase from, increasing the burden.
 
Jeff Reardon said:
And in the case of Long Island, it sounds like there might be different rules where people live vs. the shop they purchase from, increasing the burden.
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Indeed, but this is an even crazier scenario where the laws within one county on the same island are different from the adjoining county and both of those are drastically different from the laws of the State the Island is IN!!!!
It's totally insane.
 
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