ruffed grouse in wisconsin

F

Frank BeFay

Active member
anyone have any info. on the Wisconsin crash in ruffed grouse population?
in 1997 about a million were harvested, 2015 about 200,000. been a steady decline along with greatly reduced "cycles" which were about 10 years. its a disturbing trend that mimics my observations while hunting. the link attached has the harvest report info. license sales have dropped as well which could account for some of the decline. Drumming reports show some decline in some areas, dramatic decline in others. Drumming reports do not account for nesting success, diseases etc. that might account for the decline in harvest. I hunt in north east Wisconsin from the green bay area to antigo up to mercer over to pembine area. been at it for 35 years, running 2 springers and the number of contacts has become dismal. My brother has a cottage in mercer, usually a good area, he said he didnt see a bird last year. Also, I am a Member of the Brown county sportsman's club in Green Bay, wi. there are a good number of hard core grouse hunters reporting similar poor bird numbers. There have been a few 'pockets" of good bird numbers, but after 6 to 10 days of hunting 8 to 11 covers a day not a lot of birds around.
The DNR has begun to look at the issue, west nile virus as a possible problem.
https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/WildlifeHabitat/documents/reports/smgameharv.pdf
 
There is a jointly sponsored and funded upper-Midwest study attempting to assess the impact of west Nile virus on grouse populations in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota that was recently initiated:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-smith/2018/05/23/regional-study-examine-impact-west-nile-virus-ruffed-grouse/636008002/

We lost about 30-60% of our juvenile grouse last year...from the season opener on into snow cover, based on conversations with other grouse hunters. Good numbers of birds at the season open dwindled to very few juveniles in the bag very quickly. This past fall was the second very warm fall hunting season the grouse in the U.P. of Michigan have experienced.

I do recall MDNR vets assessing incidence in grouse at the Rose Lake Facility, but I don't recall what Dr. Smith's group concluded regarding the prevalence rate. I do know that a small sub-sample of UP birds all were found to be WNV positive.

It makes sense that the wildlife WNV incidence would track in positive correlation with that of the human population...
 

The Ruffed Grouse is the PA state bird, and the population is/has been in steep decline. So much so that the late season has been eliminated, and Ruffed Grouse dog trials held in ANF did not take place last fall to the best of my knowledge.

Much research has, and is being done. I have tried my best to keep up with the situation in PA, as well as western NY. From some of the reading I have done, the grouse that remain are resistant to West Nile, and are the hope for a better population in the future.


As a long time grouse hunter this population plummet saddens me. I hope and pray that the situation improves with the help of Mother Nature and human beings.

Many years before my retirement I planned and geared up to grouse hunt hard until I dropped. Then the bottom fell out. So much for plans made well in advance...


So far this Spring, during time spent outdoors many days turkey hunting, fly fishing, scouting, etc. I have heard no grouse drumming, or seen even one bird.

A far cry from the way things used to be.


I did talk with a fellow fly fisherman yesterday while fishing near the NY/PA line. He lives close by to where we were, and told me he heard and watched two cock birds drumming on his property, but saw no hen birds respond.

I have fond memories of grouse drumming, while hen birds were perched in the trees above casually watching. God Willing I shall witness that courtship again before my time is done.
 
Ok, I get emails from the DNR on these sort of topics, saw the WNV thing but wasn't convinced it was the issue. had not seen test result data. if in fact the sample tested in Michigan was all positive that would explain a lot of things. it would also be time to start working on a solution! Given that Grouse and woodcock are the only 2 birds around to hunt hope it happens fast!
 
Good Morning Vince,
your plan sounded like my plan! sitting on the couch right now with lilly and lacey my 2 springer spaniels. there have been some disturbing trends, and a little positive going on, 1. the crash in the grouse population, 2. CWD in the whitetail, 3. woodcocks seem to be stabilized and perhaps rebounding, 4. water fowl would be the crown jewel around the bay of green bay tons of birds.
a. with out grouse it makes no sense to drive 75 miles to hunt with a 3 bird woodcock limit. that be some mighty expensive dinner! (tried some local woodlots, no driving, bout the same # of birds)
b. CWD combined with the aging of the boomers has put a cloud over deer hunting and land devaluation has begun. Ironically in WiSC. the Ag. Dept is in charge of "game farm" deer (this is were CWD came in to the state), not the DNR. Gov. Walker, not the Ag. Dept., finally put his foot down and is requiring double fencing, and more frequent monitoring of fence integrity. I'm a biologist, too little too late. very angry that "deer farms" were allowed to be careless and not held financially responsible for the damage they have done. So this takes the luster off deer hunting, in some areas as high as 10% of the deer are positive, worse it takes 3 months to get the test result.
c. so that leaves pheasant, local clubs through out some "pen chickens" and there are some game farms. no reproduction. its ok, not really hunting.
d,. turkeys have done really well!.
So here we are retired, whats left?! Ducks are good, still bow hunt... as my land depreciates, CWD is disturbing, turkey hunting is fun, fish a lot and love it, much like yourself, really wanted to spend more time up north. not sure were it all ends but I, lilly and lacey feel your pain.
View attachment pheas1.jpg
 
Hi Rick, saw you are from Marquette, used to work in the u.p. Dan Soldan, Clair Depue, were a couple of fellas I hung out with. Negaunee rod and gun for skeet night, and Big Bay, Lake independence fishing. wondered if you knew these guys? Dan's a nurse, Clair a PA.
Frank
 
Dan worked in the MGH Emergency Department, correct? I used to run into him fishing more than hunting. Glad to see he married well! He and his new wife fished salmon out of the same marina I did for years. Other than his friendship with a preceptor in the FP residency who I used to hunt with, which brought us into contact, I did not know him well. Clare was a good friend with one of the guys I used to XC-ski race with, Mike Pryor. Last I knew of him, he was working at the VA DJ Jacobetti Veteran's facility.
 
Frank, I had a friend get an offer to take over a reservation with a Manitoba based outfitter. Mark jumped at the chance. Make his preparations and was off. He shot a nice buck, boned-out the meat and wrapped it, processed the skull cap for importation and then loaded-up for the trip home. He stopped prior going through the border inspection site to make sure he had all his paperwork in order and the venison he was importing ready for easy inspection. He arrived at the customs station in West Hope, NDak. NO one asked to see any of his paperwork. They did not inspect his cooler nor even walk out and look at the contents of his truck. He was dumbfounded at their lack of effort.

https://www.qdma.com/this-cwd-map-spells-trouble-future-deer-hunting/

Do you wonder how the non-captive cervid ranch associated cases of CWD spread? I don't anymore!
 
Good afternoon Frank

Upland bird hunting and bird dogs have strong roots in my family on my mothers side. My grandfather was a ardent bird and small game hunter. His barbershop (as a young man Perry Como cut hair in the shop) always had at least four dogs ready to go. As a child my mom learned how to walk, holding on to the back of a Irish Setter. Prior to his death my grandfather would make yearly hunting trips to western NY, especially for pheasant. Geneseo, NY I have read, was where pheasants were first introduced in the USA, and the birth place of American wingshooting. Now a few stocked birds are just about all there are for dogs to work.

Small world as I know live not far from Geneseo. Thanks to my uncle Frank (now 94) and his WWII veteran buddies, I became and hunter and fisherman. Then got addicted to waterfowl and waterfowl hunting.

So my plan upon retirement, was to return to my roots, after migrating near and far hunting waterfowl, as well as upland birds. The plan involved a dear friend giving me one of his fine Springer Spaniel pups. I had to decline his offer (that still stands) as the lack of birds would do the dog no good.


The photo of your Best Friends makes me smile and does my heart good. Tain't nothing better than bird dogs with birds. Their reason to BE.


At present CWD is not here yet, but is just south of us in my home state of PA. I am not convinced that it is not transferable to human beings upon eating, as it cannot be killed upon cooking the meat I have read. So ya, things in that regard are worrisome.

Doves we have aplenty, but of course no season in NY.

Turkey are in decline (also may be WNV related), deer also not so good due to severe winters. We do have plenty of Squirrels, so I hunt what there is to keep my legs in shape. Wood ducks and Teal get my attention when they are around and maybe geese.


So the new grouse hunting pants, coat, vest, etc., that I acquired to replace all the old worn out stuff, prior to retiring, is mostly unused. I thought by now they would have that well used look and "air" about them. As new stuff makes one look like Joe Orvis, YUCK!

Waterfowliing is fine, but nothing touches grouse (all kinds) hunting, far as I'm concerned. Gawd how I miss it.


Thank you for your post my grouse hunting brother.

This evening after I return from trout & bug lookin'. I'll lax, then relax and drink a toast to you, Lilly and Lacey. To better days ahead.

Best regards
VP


View attachment Benelli M10001.jpg
Sask. Sharptails worked by Chessies, that flew into my "shootgun" pattern. Mighty fine birds.
 
good after noon Vince,
thanks for the thoughtful message. funny I never realized what a treasure grouse were until they went south. the 2 girls get a few birds that spill over from a local clubs release for "pheasant season" they don't do well this far north so they are better off shot. Like the sharp tail pic! we don't have any around here. used to be some Hungarians around but they are seemingly gone. Pheasant and Hungarians were "invasive species" but we like em so its ok. they just don't do well around here. fortunately I have made a significant effort to talk with land owners around here. to save on driving there is a little circuit of covers close by that hold a few woodcock and grouse, 3 hours of hunting and 30 minutes driving. way better! glad to hear you had a rich heritage of sportsmen in your family, my dads 90 he had me in a duck skiff when I was 4. haha. I still have 2 treasures, his cedar strip Kidney boat company "Green Bay duck skiff" made in the early 50's, and my clear pine strip Thompson skiff made in the late 50's. started in those boats as a child and love to paddle around in em today. skiffing is a lost art in the Green Bay area and that makes it sublime for me!
turkey season just ended and on to fishing. I trust your trout fishing was rich! must get to a stream my self. love trout.
as far as CWD is concerned, (biologist by trade) I don't know what the heck a "prion" is and it seems the science community does not either. not even able to develop a test for live deer or a fast test on a dead one. what scares me the most is that long term ramifications are unknown and difficult to define. if in fact it does effect humans it may not manifest itself for 10 15 20 years.
I been digging and burning a stump all day, think its time I join you in that toast, cheers! if you are ever in the Green Bay area my "bar" is open to you.
take care
Frank
 
yep Dan (I may have miss spork his name may have been Jim Soldan) was an ER nurse, been a long time since I was up in that area. when I was working up there is was fortunate that he and Clair took me under their wing for a little fun while I was on the road. appreciate the up date.
 
Rick, that map and info. is scary. makes me sick to my stomach to think that a treasure such as white tail is being destroyed like this. yes I agree there is no doubt the reckless behavior around transporting affected deer is contributing to the spread. unfortunately the reckless transportation of deer by "game farms" started it all for Wisconsin. its sad, once again game farm profit and money ruins such a good thing. thanks for the link!
frank
 
Frank and Vince, i feel your pain. Here in s/e Ohio our grouse are gone except for a few small pockets. Woodcock are available if you know where to look and have permission not being very palatable i generally avoid them. Duck hunting in the hills is mostly jump shooting for woodys, i like decoying. River hunting over decoys can be good but nothing like it used to be it seems the birds do not hang out but move through quickly. The bright spot is deer,turkey for the wing shooter doves are good.

I have lived on the same property since 1972 and have seen lots of changes, nothing stays the same. Fortunately Quail are making a comeback. I have had some success by planting warm season grasses/pollinator plots which benefit both pollinators,Monarch Butterflies and Quail.

To satisfy my sweet tooth for wing shooting Rufus my Pudelpointer and i visit pheasant release sites and pay to hunt farms these satisfy us, saves us money over a 1300 mile trip out west and puts us back home at days end. It must be hunting because i still manage to miss my share.

It has been said you can never go home again, i believe you can, it just won't be the same. We need to enjoy what we have if we are not willing to travel.
 
In my part of eastern NC we don’t have grouse but the quail population has plummeted some kind of awful. Used to go out and here them calling back and forth all the time when I was a kid. Now it’s big news if you hear one. In fact only heard two in the past year since spring 2017.

Most of the blame is on coyotes coming a bigger nuisance where we used to only have red and grey foxes. Now we have an over abundance of coyotes and less foxes and the bobcats are becoming more populous. But I feel some of the issue arises in habitat destruction because more and more land and forests are being cleared in my area. Quail just don’t have the areas they use to have.
Rabbit hunting ain’t as good either.
Doves has seen a lag the past few years.
Deer are starting to rebound a little but still are not like they use to be.
Ducks are decent but depends on the winters. This past year was the best it’s been in 5 years.
And all this is noticeable in a short timeframe since I’m only 23 and a lot has changed since I’ve been alive.
 
Good afternoon Frank

I agree with you about the long drives to go hunting. I usually stay in my Geezer zone close to home, but do like a good road trip now and again to keep a edge on things.

As much as I love Ruffed Grouse, Sharptails really get me goin', and I'll take hunting them over Range Roosters any day (not to say I don't enjoy Pheasant hunting). Sage Grouse, well they are in a class all their own. So I'd have to say IMO Out West is the best, and WESTERN SKIES by John Barsness is still one of my favorite reads.

There are decent flights of Woodcock here, and birds are taken while folks are hunting stocked Pheasants. Seems as though the hard core Woodcock and Grouse hunters have faded along with the Ruffed Grouse population. My grandmother had a very good recipe for Woodcock, roasted with a red wine reduction sauce that I have been unable to duplicate. I should have paid better attention, she was a fine game cook.


Man it sounds as if you have some real treasures with those Green Bay duck skiffs. They are incredible marsh duck hunting & shooting vessels. The wooden ones are pure stealth in a good marsh gunners hands. Sublime for sure

I have to make do with my fiberglass, Appleton marsh skiff. Not near as good as it's wooden brethren, but we get along well. Ya just don't see hunters using marsh boats anymore and like you, that is fine with me.


As far a CWD, the sooner they can discover a quick test for a yay, or nay, the better. A very good friend died from a terrible disease similar to Mad Cow, but in humans. He went to the best hospitals in the country. He ate venison cooked rare his entire life, as he was a north central PA boy, then man. He and his wife were convinced that he got the disease from eating so much game his entire life. The medical experts said no, he was born with it and it laid dormant. They told him he had six months, and they were correct. Now from what I have read they really don't know for sure.


It has been awhile since I have been up your way, and I appreciate the invite to clink glasses. Thank You. The birds out west keep calling me back, and I ain't gettin' any younger...

Salude!
Vince
 
Bill

Back in the day NE Ohio was prime Ruffed Grouse habitat and huntin'. As I lived so close to the Ohio line, I hunted Ohio every year for many years. Plus they had a late season all the way into February, if one could handle all the snow and bitter cold.

I did this watercolor painting for a good friend and hunting partner. It is to commemorate all the good grouse hunts we had in Ohio, with his black lab Pepper. She was pure hell on upland birds.



View attachment grouse wc.jpg





It's very good news that Bob Whites are coming back. IMO the best eatin' bird The Almighty put on earth, so good I try to eat the bones...

I agree, if yer gonna stay in one place ya gotta roll with the punches and take what you are given. I have not given up on takin' the BIG NASTY ride out west. The longer ya stay, the more worthwhile the PITA drive is. At my age, the problem is finding younger guys to go/drive, and are willing to stay a spell. Heck it takes three days just to shake off the "drive lag" and guys are being civil to each other again. The return to civilization is the downer.
 
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