Westlake....fun, yet confusing

Dave Sikorski

Dave Sikorski

Well-known member
It was great to get back to the Holiday Inn to see old friends, and meet new ones. Staying up WAAAAy too late proved to be quite entertaining and I can honestly say I heard some of the deepest conversations about decoy carving that I've ever heard, and had a pretty darn good margarita!

The passion that the decoy world has is pretty darn cool and downright inspiring.

I didn't have any decoys in the pool, but as usual I watched the competition and made my own selections in my head.

There's no question that the entries proved their is no shortage of talent out there, but I think the overall pool competition was disappointing.

It was good to see the judging go a little quicker than normal, but the problems with the new thoughts on judging showed themselves rather quickly.

In all of the competitions I've been a part of there are various classes.....puddler, diver, sea ducks, goose and conf., canvas....etc. The judges rank the top 3 of species, then each top decoy gets a chance to be awarded 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, of class. Then, the winners of the class compete for 1,2,3 best of show....

I must admit, I woke up kinda late, and was surprised to see a number of rigs being pulled in and out of the pool when I first arrived. A rig of common mergs, GWT, and BWT remained in the pool after the other rigs were removed. I assume that meant they were 1,2 and 3....But how the heck could there be 2 puddlers and a diver set up as best of show????

So....I continued to stand around and comment about the different decoys I saw in the pool, as well as those on the tables. In my past trips to Ohio I've always been able to pick the top 3 out rather quickly, or at least get relatively close. This year, I couldn't find a pattern in the judging, and surely couldn't guess their selections ahead of time.

What really threw me for a loop was when they pulled 3 or 4 decoys out of the pool together, and made the final decision from 5'. IMO that's a problem and shows a shift to a different kind of competition.

To me, a good gunning decoy represents the given species in profile, attitude, and color. It must self right, ride the water in a stable fashion....especially in a pool. Front to back rocking is way more acceptable than side to side. For me I'd prefer a slightly larger than life size decoy, and fully expect the proper anatomy to exist no matter the style. Flat edges are a no no and a simple yet suitable paint job must exist. It's also important that the paint is in the right spot and is the right color. IMO highlights and shadows should be left to the environment the decoy is in.

I spent a good deal of time around the table where the top 3 of each species was placed, and I was very surprised by some of the selections. I know judging is a very variable thing, and I would have loved to have listened in to some of the conversations that occurred by the judges booth.

I've judged before, and I'm sure there were folks that disagreed with my selections, and I know that is part of the game. It's never easy to pick through that many decoys and make everyone happy, but this year was a surprise.

Switching up the BOS selection rules is a mistake....If a decoy doesn't have all blues around it's neck it should not be in the running for 1,2 or 3 BOS. If you want to do it that way....fill the pool with ALL of the decoys and pick the 3 best.

I would really like to hear the justification of the BOS changes

I'd also like to see the Judges utilize the balcony and only the balcony for judgement.....Ducks are the final judges of a gunning decoy, and if a duck gets as close as the balcony and is still convinced, your decoy has done it's job.

Judges should be carefully selected, and include people who have a lot of experience hunting various species. A hunter with guiding experience and A LOT of time on the water makes a better judge that someone who sees most of their ducks in pictures. It's nothing personal, but based on some of the selections on Sunday, I think there was a lack of understanding of some of the species. Judging is always a mix of opinions and the way someone sees something, but there are certain things that must send a decoy to the side of the pool.

Like I said, I didn't have anything in the pool, and surely am not a disgruntled participant, but those that know me well know I have opinions and occasionally share them!

George was pretty ticked about his brant being DQ'd for a crack in the bill, and I must say I agree with his protest. If durable means that a decoy bill can't break when meeting concrete, then they surely won't need to be easily repairable cause they'll never break. Either way, a decision must be made and one was. That's that and it's water under the bridge. He finally cooled off by the time we got home!


Overall, it was great seeing everyone, and I hope I have the time to get some decoys put together by next year so I can have a good reason to disagree with the judges....HEHE!!

-D
 
Wow, thank you for an open and honest prespective. I have not seen any pics of the gunning birds, but the simple fact they were being judged at such a close range I do have a problem with. A third generation carver who himself is in his 70"s answered my question, "why do so many upperbay canvasback decoys have yellow eyes?" he responded "I ask my grandfather the same thing, he said if the birds are close enough to notice they should be floating on their backs" There is room for both styles of carving in this world, lets keep them seperated.
 
Hi Dave,
Didn't get to talk to you at the show but was at the pool and I would have picked some other decoys also, but as you know you get what you get and what I like in a decoy someone else might not. As far as the way they pick best of show that is the way most shows do it and would be more than happy to talk to you about it. Send me a PM with your number and I will give you a call. I think Luke C. did a great job with the contest.
Pete
 
I fully understand that I wont always agree with the judges, and surely don't expect to every time.

I haven't seen gunning decoy BOS selected using a replacement method. If that's what they want to use at Westlake, so be it, but I disagree with that decision.

If someone wants to explain why the replacement method is a good idea I'll gladly read it, but at this point I've made up my mind and I've shared my opinions.

-D
 
Dave,

I guess that it all comes down to perspective. I might have some information that you might not have had when you wrote your post that might help you.

Just to start this I didn't enter any decoys either I just watched and enjoyed my friends victories or commiserated with them in the defeat. But I think that I saw something different than you. The pool contest had been run for a very long time, I don't know the exact length, by Cliff and Audrey. They decided to retire from chairing the contest after last year. During Cliff and Audrey's term the Pool became one of the largest and most talked about contests anywhere. It used to be that all divers were judged at once, and all puddlers etc. And only three birds out of I don't know how many hundred would get ribbons. Probably ten years or so ago they changed the format to go to species judging because the competitors wanted more ribbons awarded. It was a good decision but it also really bogged things down. What was once a time frame of a couple hours began lasting way into the afternoon. Last year the singles judging didn't end until 4:00pm. And remember there are many people who have to catch flights or have long drives to get home so they can go to work on Monday. Not to mention all of the volunteers, and everyone who is involved with the ODCCA is a volunteer, have to stay around and clean up and break down the show.

So anyway Cliff and Audrey retired and then there was the split between groups. Luke Costilow and Joe Brewer stepped up and in to take over running the Pool event. Now let me interject at this point that none of the Costilows entered any decoys in any of the ODCCA events this year to keep the air of propriety, not even a chance at a conflict of interest. So they all worked all year long organizing and then running the show all weekend but didn't get to participate, think about that. I'm not sure if Joe did or didn't maybe someone could enlighten us on that. So what I'm saying is that we had two young guys step up in a time of transition doubled with a time of big uncertainty. That right there was recipe for a disaster, but that didn't happen. Instead we had a really good huge decoy contest that ran smoothly.

Now what I saw with all three pool events taking place at the same time were two young guys who were responsive to the needs of the greater community. What they did in my view was ultimately considerate of the fact that people had to travel at the end of the day. Plus a big complaint in the past had been that the judging always went too long and as a result of that guys took their decoys and left and everyone else didn't have the chance to see them or photograph them. This year I saw many people doing just that after the judging.

On the judging let me tell you this. I judged on Saturday morning and had personally made my mind up about to not accept any compensation. If you didn't know they always offered this to judges for their time. I talked to Mark Faulkenberry on Sunday morning and he told me that only one person took the judging money. Everyone else donated their's back to the ODCCA to help the event. I did take the coffee mug offered but promptly left it in my hotel room when I left. But that is how it goes. So then we had nine guys judging the three different categories on Sunday under a new format with new direction and I believe they did a bang up job.

From what I've seen and been involved with at this show if you have a suggestion, make it to the appropriate event chairmen and they have shown they are willing to consider change.
 
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John-

Thanks for the information, but none of it is new information.

I understand the situation that exists at ODCCA and I am glad that the show was able to go on. I'm just sharing what I see as things that could be improved. I heard a lot of negative rumblings around the pool, and I hope I'm not the only one giving feedback on the show.

None of this is personal, so I hope people don't take anything I've said as such. In my world disagreement is a good thing and nothing I said was said with malicious intent.

Keep the opinions coming, the decoy world needs to hear what you think.

I think my opinion has been heard enough so I'll leave it up to the readers to decide what I meant. I hope others chime in and let us know how they feel.

-D
 
thanks John but that doesn't address any of the issues raised. I have been wanting to attend this show and plan to do so in the next year or two and enter a few birds in. But the issues raised are concerns for me. I only do shows for fun as the ultimate judge of a decoy in my mind is years of hunting it and fooling the birds close enough to get shots. But it allows me to meet like minded people and get things to work on to improve my skill set. But if rules are going to change on the fly, judges aren't ethical or qualified and decoys are going to be judged within feet, I will not bother. As far as volunteering and every show is like that that I have been part of, it takes dedicated people and if there are problems or preception of cluelessness the amount of dedicated people will go away.
 
With a new direction, there possibly could have been a NEW set of rules?

If the intent is to change direction, whatever that means, then, i hope by next year, the criteria are changed also.
Please be aware, the saturday stuff is pretty much IWCA directed, and what transpired on saturday and sunday usually were opposite, philosophically.
My two cents. It's done, and hopefully, some of the "YIPS" will be worked out by 2013.
For you new folks, come to Havre de Grace, the first weekend in May--Dekes are judged out on the "flats," while other stuff is looked at on tables or in a tank. Rig for this year wil be six buffies, which are usually set by the maker-Singles need at least five feet of line and weights, of course. Prevailing weather conditions are what they are, and judges will observe from what we can describe as a duck's perspective- There is a walkway along the flats, just below the museum, and judges work from there--We normally have a group of workers in waders, doing the water work on the singles.
Come on down, and become part of the rich waterfowling history of the Upper Bay, on the Susquehanna Flats.
 
I went back and looked over the rules on the web page and it is in bold letters that the Best of Show will be judged using the replacement rule.
Pete
 
will recheck the catalog--did not use the website
an interesting surprize for some of us--What amazed me was that during finals, the first place in goose category was pulled and replaced by number two--NOW, THAT astounded me, to say the least--Don't know if folks were observing that, but it seemed a mite strange!
They certainly have to get some bugs outta the whole NEW operation, for sure.
 
George:
The wrong goose (2nd) was mistakenly placed in BOS. It was pulled and the 1st place goose was judged.
 
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Dave,

Hopefully the Mayans were wrong and I'll get to Westlake in 2013; I haven't been in way too many years. One of the negatives to living in Arkansas...no decoy shows close by.

I think the replacement rule is just an attempt to get closer to making sure that the 3 BOS decoys are in fact the three best birds there that day. It just disregards the divisions of puddler, diver, sea duck, merganser, etc. and says that having the three best birds on the podium at the end of the day is more important than the fact that all three are puddle ducks.

Let's say that we have a small show that has puddler, diver, goose/swan/conf, and sea duck/merg. Nobody enters in the sea duck class, and there are three coots, a Ross' goose and a Canada goose in goose/swan/conf. Our final best in division lineup is an oustanding mallard, a decent bobtail bluebill, and one of the coots. Under standard rules, those would be the three BOS birds. But let's go a step further and say that the puddle duck division was very strong...the mallard won, but the second and third place puddlers were a very, VERY good widgeon and a black duck. The widgeon is obviously better than the bluebill or coot, and the black duck and bluebill were by the same carver and about equal...the coot beat everything in its class, but just didn't stand out in BOS.

So under the standard rules we narrow the field down and then pick BOS based on a representative format. Replacement says, "nope...best three birds there that day...." So we get mallard, widgeon, and bluebill for 1, 2, 3 BOS.

Not saying right or wrong, but if the objective of the show is to pick the three best birds, then it does make sense. I could have the best diver in the pond, but it still not be one of the best three birds there that day...
 
George:
I believe it was 1st Brant, 2nd Ross, 3rd Blue

They had the 1st & 2nd place decoys lined up ready for BOS judging and one of the handlers tossed the wrong one in. It was caught before anything was even judged.
 
Thanks for the explanation Rick. I assumed that was the case, but still think it's a bad idea.

Imagine if they let Duke back into the tourney cause they can beat xavier.

If you want to pick the 3 BOS then put all the singles in the pool together and remove decoys until you have 3 left....That would be the best of show.

-D
 
I think the pool contest went really well. I didn't have anything entered either. I really appreciated the organization and judging multiple events at the same time - it didn't drag on like last year. I also like the replacement rule - I never understood why they didn't use it in the pool before, when everything else at the show has this rule. Anyway, I'm sure ODCCA will continue to do their best at putting on an awesome show.

Tod Van Wieren
 
Dave,

I understand what you're saying; I used to agree wholeheartedly...one bite at the apple...but understanding that if I'm not the Best in class, then I have no shot at BOS, even if my 2nd-best ____________ is better than every decoy in the ___________ class.

I can see the logic for replacement, but I also will say that in a show like Westlake, where it looks like EVERY species was fairly well represented, that if you can survive species and class, chances are the top diver, puddler, etc. ARE the best birds in the pool.

Good discussion, thanks!
 
You've summed it up well Rick.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of all of the decoys swimming together. The helpers would pull the decoys as the judges see fit and the last 3 of each species would ribbon, the last 3 puddlers would ribbon, and the last 3 decoys period would get BOS.

If course, you can't forget HM!

-D
 
George:
I believe it was 1st Brant, 2nd Ross, 3rd Blue

They had the 1st & 2nd place decoys lined up ready for BOS judging and one of the handlers tossed the wrong one in. It was caught before anything was even judged.
Click to expand...

that is the correct order. i will admit when the ross was back in the pool i thought i misheard the first time. things happen, glad you caught it quick Terry. not to stray off topic but i did like the speed in which the competition took place and the chance to walk around and look at the decoys after the judging.
 
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