What laws do you commonly see broken by duck hunters?

And just to point out how silly this one can be. So we can get the ducks home (my personal abode), clean them and bag them up. Then later that same day I can transport them somewhere else right?

Or, if I shoot ducks at home and clean them I can bring them to my cabin for eating later. Then suppose I didn?t eat them at the cabin during duck season I can bring them back home during the duck season. Maybe they need to be tagged on the bag I don?t know.

Once again, not trying to get around the law, just trying to figure out how it can be enforced and how I don?t get caught up in it.

Mark
 

Mark -

Very tough to figure out sometimes, good luck with that.

We all make errors.

It is best to obey as best ya can, and if trouble does arise be honest.


A friend of mine came back from Canada, with a zip lock bag full of butter milk and then fried duck fingers to munch on for the long drive home.

That did not go over very well at all at the boarder check point.

They were confiscated, and he got a stern lecture.

No I did not make the duck fingers, another cook did.
 
To take that one step further, how many people are physically attaching their stamp to their license?


I seem to remember this conversation coming up on here before. I have looked and have not seen where it states that the stamp has to be applied to hunting license. If that was the case then how do they state in the regs that i only need one duck stamp and not multiple to hunt separate states. If it had to be applied to hunting license to hunt ducks then I would need a stamp for each license of each state I hunted.
 
Good morning, Ben~


As per Federal law and here in NYS, there is no requirement for attaching your Federal Duck Stamp. It must be signed across the face.


For many seasons now, I print out a wallet-sized card that has my HIP (NYS) on it; I attach the Duck Stamp to it.


Note that separate HIP numbers are needed for (most ?) other states if you travel to hunt.


All the best,


SJS

 
Good morning, Jay~


At one time, our ECOs here in NYS effectively had search authority such as you describe. The courts have made it clear, though, that they are not exempt from the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution (protection against illegal search and seizure). Our game wardens need the same "probable cause" or "exigent circumstances" as any other law enforcement officer. I do not know whether this practice has been similarly challenged/resolved in the rest of the nation.


All the best,


SJS

 
Same thing here in PA Jay and Steve... Game Wardens do not have further reaching powers than any other LE officers. They are not exempt from the Fourth Amendment protecting from illegal search and seizure. If they were to walk in your garage and seize evidence out of your freezer without a warrant OR your explicit permission the evidence would be inadmissible in any court under the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree Doctrine. I can't imagine this would different in any other state. Now if they saw incriminating evidence in "plain sight", that opens up a whole different can of worms.

It's a common myth among hunters in this state that wardens have some far reaching power above and beyond any other LE. I'ts simply not true.
 
They used to be able to enter residences here until challenged in court. There were some ice fishermen out fishing and a warden entered their shack unannounced. He caught the doing cocaine or smoking dole and subsequently found them guilty of game violations

Case went to court and the Plaintiffs won under unreasonable search and seizure. Sure makes life difficult for the CO?s to catch ice fishing. Isolations now as they have to knock and be given permission to enter an ice house now. Don?t know if I agree with this one but I understand why it is so.

Mark
 
The law pretty much applies to anyplace somebody would have a reasonable expectation of privacy...even a vehicle or duckboat. But again, if there is something in plain sight that can be articulated in court, the defendant should be on the losing side of that battle.
 
Steve Steffy said:
The law pretty much applies to anyplace somebody would have a reasonable expectation of privacy...even a vehicle or duckboat. But again, if there is something in plain sight that can be articulated in court, the defendant should be on the losing side of that battle.

Reminds me of a time I was at a pubilc hunting access.

Backstory; I had been hunting squirrels but I was dressed in normal street clothes. Got done hunting, put my gun under the back seat and sat in my truck taking a break and eating a sandwich.

Enter three vehicles; Two DNR vehicles and one county Sheriff's vehicle, They all get out and one of them approaches my vehicle, I roll my window down and greet the officer. He asks me what I'm doing, (meanwhile the other two are walking all around my truck and looking thru the topper windows and on the ground around). I respond by saying "eating my lunch". He makes some more small talk, says "have a nice day" and they all leave.

More details; It was the first morning of gun deer season. Something must have occurred nearby. I suspect the other officers were looking for evidence that I had a firearm or was hunting. Without that, I didn't get asked for a hunting lisc. nor did I even get asked who I was.

Actually a perfect example of how it should work. We were both polite and it was a smooth interaction. I knew they would have liked to do a more thorough[font=Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif] [/font]check but with out any reason, their hands were tied. I did not volunteer more info, just because I wanted to see how it would play out. (not that there was anything I had done wrong)
 
Mark W said:
Sure makes life difficult for the CO?s to catch ice fishing. Isolations now as they have to knock and be given permission to enter an ice house now.

Mark

Mark,

That is my understanding as well but to clarify; This only applies to hard sided houses and MAY only apply if the "fish house" appears to be large enough to provide "living" quarters ie; bed and potty. In other words, no expectation of privacy in a canvas hub or flip over tent shelter.
 


It's a common myth among hunters in this state that wardens have some far reaching power above and beyond any other LE. I'ts simply not true.[/quote]


Steve -

It is myth, now, but back in the day, even in the 1990's it was true in PA. Then it changed for the reasons that Steve Sanford wrote.

In the mid 1990's my hunting partner and I were stopped in a road hunting crack down, during Spring turkey season in ANF.

We were told to get out of the vehicle. Then the vehicle was searched. Our shotguns were in cases, and after the search we were sent on our way.

So ya it was true, and their are plenty of old law suits and complaints to prove it.


In 2010 I moved to western NY, and from personal experience it seems to have gone the other way.

Now there has to be solid proof, beyond a shadow of a doubt, aka eye witness, positive ID, etc., etc., before a ticket is given.

We just went through this last Saturday. The first day of NY deer gun season dealing with trespassers, with the aid of a DEC officer, and a NY state trooper helping us.

The officers worked very hard to help us resolve the issue, but more or less their hands were tied.

I tip my hat to both officers.

It seems to have gone from one direction, to the other, in regards to enforcement IMO.

Many of us Geezers have seen a lot in our days outdoors, and in the end it all seems to even out.
 
Vince...I don't doubt all of that was true at one point in time, I know it was. All of the prior cases and complaints that you mentioned are why we're where we are today. More or less due to officers overstepping their bounds. And yes, some of them still push that envelope today. Unfortunately I have worked with some of them. There are plenty more, far more paramount, cases that date back into the 60's and 70's that have really molded our current judicial system.

Dave...that's a perfect example. Those officers couldn't really ask much of you for sitting there eating a sandwich. Even if you do look like a thug[whistle]
 
Steve Steffy said:
Dave...that's a perfect example. Those officers couldn't really ask much of you for sitting there eating a sandwich. Even if you do look like a thug[whistle]

Steve,
Now days, they look at me and think "harmless old thug". [;)]
 
Steve -

In the 60's and 70's, it was a case of guilty until proved innocent, and it would cost big bucks to try.

Next time we see each other I can tell ya some stories that are doozies, and I'm sure you can do the same.

From what I gather, when PA had well over one million hunters, the Game Commission decided to take a very hard stand to "try" to keep us in check.

It worked in some ways and failed in others.

Now there are far less hunters everywhere, not just in PA, and my how times have changed.
 
I have been tagging my ducks for years and years. I had a rubber stamp made up and use it on blank tags or card stock. When a bird is shot it goes on the hunters strap and that strap has hunters ID on it . Back at the ramp we will fill out the tags and if birds are to be gifted the birds come off the strap and wired together. I also put the tag in the zip lock bag after duck has been cleaned. Remember a feathered wing must be attached for transport,. A bag of filets is aganist the law and fill get you a ticket.
Back in the 80s ,I was the second boat back at the ramp and I had already started this practice, but the boat in front of me had not. They beached the boat one guy grabs the ducks one guy grabs the guns and gear and so forth. Warden steps out and says "Boy , what are you doing with all those ducks"? Asks the hunters to grab their ducks THEY shot. The last guy ends up with nothing to choose from but alot of hen mallards. Writes him a ticket. Guy grumbles and throws birds in pickup moves 6 inches gets stopped for illegal transport, Ticket # 2. Now the wardens go over everything. Non functional fire ext. ticket #3.
Moral of the story is, do the right thing, know the law, dont be a d..k!
 
Worst instance of a CO overstepping their authority up here has to go to a female who was very in-your-face at every interaction. Over by the MSU Agricultural Experiment Station in Chatham is a State owned field. As part of the Autrain Basin Waterfowl Refuge complex system the State pays share-cropper farmers to plant and manage, but not harvest all of the crops on the plots they lease. This particular location has three ponds in a rough triangle in the southeastern corn, with the fields to the north comprising just under 100acres, annually planted in in alfalfa. One year the leasing farmer was also paid to plant sixty fallow acres east of the ponds in corn. He was allowed to harvest forty acres, then instructed to drive his tractor down the standing corn rows left and knock them down and leave them for deer and waterfowl to feed on the cobs. A group of folks from Munising traditionally hunt the goose opener on this field complex, driving in on a two-track from the north to the gate, and setting-up on the perimeter along the tree line, usually on the north side where the field forms a rather flat expanse for sixty acres or so. From this spot in the field you couldn't actually see the cornfield over by the ponds since it is at about a 30 foot higher elevation. We cart in our gear from the gate on the perimeter of the farm from the south side if we see no lights along the tree line, hiding our carts and decoy bags in a shallow valley just off the two track that dissects the field. Occasionally, we hunt together but they have no layout blinds, so we would rotate hunters through them.

Ms. Dunn ticketed all of these hunters for hunting over bait on opening day as well as some other folks, despite the fact that the harvested cornfield was about a quarter of a mile away, and the harvest interval was well over two weeks prior the goose opener. I was in the Regional MDNR Office when two of them came in to talk to the Law Enforcement Supervisor, listened to their recount of events and told them to contact an attorney who hunts waterfowl that I knew. They requested a hearing before a judge and presented the evidence I just cited in the overview. The judge threw the case out, citing entrapment. The telling piece of evidence was the farmer's testimony that he was instructed to knock the corn down with his tractor and leave it. '

The only personal incident that I have faced that I felt was harassment was one night I was walking out of a clear-cut to my truck in the pouring rain. I had misse a turn and walked well out of my way prior looking at my compass and determinin I was headed in the wrong direction. I back tracked and found the right skidder road but my head lamp had nearly died, so I rummaged through my pack and found an old alumunim cased pen light I used to wear around my neck, prior headlamps. I turned it on and finished the hike out, arriving at my 4-Runner thoroughly soaked. I laid my wet rifle on my hunting coat parallel the lift gate in the back of the cargo bay because I had no intention of putting a soaking wet gun in a leather gun case. My clip and shells were already in my fanny pack which got placed next to my gun. I fired-up the 4-Runner ( In this era you could actually buy them without mid-seats, carpeting,, and the cargo bay was all rubber mat lined with no carpeting; great for hauling deer. I started down the muddy two-track to drive back to our tent camp. A vehicle's lights popped on as I passed and began to follow my out. The vehicle began riding my back bumper as I drove slowly out. When I hit an intersection with another main woods road, I pulled-over to the right to let the tailgaters by. Instead, the vehicle pulled past me and then parked in front of me and on came the floodlights. Then the interrogation started: What were you doing in the woods so late? Do you know it is a ticket-able offence to have an uncased gun in a vehicle? Gun is soaking wet. Case is leather. I can't possibly reach it from where I am driving and it is unloaded. Where are the bullets and clip? Somewhere inside that fanny pack next to the gun. You were driving erratically, have you been drinking? No, but I am driving out on a muddy rutted road in 4WD where others have gotten stuck prior my passage, with two COs tailgating me the entire way! They checked my license and finally backed out of my way...and then continued to follow me back to our tent camp to inspect our site and make sure we had a camping permit posted for State land and check my two hunting partners out. I was told they did not like my "attitude".

One of the very few times I have ever wanted to punch a C.O.
 
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Craig F said:
I'd say the one law that I would like to see adjusted, although I think most wardens will give you some slack, is the engine off, lack of forward motion stopped while chasing a cripple. I'm putting in max effort to make sure I don't lose a bird so don't write me a ticket for trying to do the right thing...

This one gets me because I hunt whistlers on both inland and coastal waters. In Maine at least, you can shoot at cripples from a moving boat if you are in tidal waters past the last bridge on a tidal river. You can't if you are inland. Fortunately my favorite inland late season diver spot is only accessible by canoe, which keeps me on the right side of the law.
 
tod osier said:
Here is MY legal question... seaward of the first bridge where you can legally shoot cripples under power... CAN YOU SHOOT FLYING CRIPPLES UNDER POWER????

Define "flying" . . . .
 
Rob M said:
To take that one step further, how many people are physically attaching their stamp to their license?

Is that actually in your regs? I was checked some years ago by a senior warden (whom I knew) and a trainee. The trainee made a big deal of the fact that my signed stamp was not attached to the license. I maintained that nothing the regulations required it to be. He seemed sure he was right, right up until the older fellow pulled him aside for a quiet word and they came back and wished me a good day. I always attach my stamp now before signing, just to avoid an argument, but cannot find where that is required.
 
Jeff Reardon said:
tod osier said:
Here is MY legal question... seaward of the first bridge where you can legally shoot cripples under power... CAN YOU SHOOT FLYING CRIPPLES UNDER POWER????

Define "flying" . . . .

Thanks for taking the bait... :)

Flying like flying. Say you cripple a bird that flys away, why cant you run after it to try to reduce it to possession? Seems to be legal.

I have participated in a version of this. We were gunning brant and my partner sailed a bird out into open water. It was swimming heads up and we motored out to get it. As we pulled into cripple slapping range he loaded and the bird flushed.
 
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